|
| |
SECOND CHANCE |
|
|
|
Not Specified
|
| |
ALL THOSE WHO HAVE HEARD THE MESSAGE OF SALVATION AND REFUSED TO ACCEPT IT, WILL THEY HAVE A SECOND CHANCE TO BE SAVED IN THE TRIBULATION PERIOD? WILL THE LORD HAVE MERCY ON THEM. |
| |
What are the seven seals? |
|
|
|
Revelation
|
| |
THE SEVEN SEALS ARE GOD'S JUDGMENTS ON THE EARTH IN THE TRIBULATION PERIOD. THE SEVEN SEALS CONTAIN 7 TRUMPETS AND THE SEVEN TRUMPETS CONTAIN THE SEVEN BOWLS. |
| |
SECOND CHANCE |
|
|
|
Rev 7:1
|
| |
ALL THOSE WHO HAVE HEARD THE MESSAGE OF SALVATION AND REFUSED TO ACCEPT IT, WILL THEY HAVE A SECOND CHANCE TO BE SAVED IN THE TRIBULATION PERIOD? WILL THE LORD HAVE MERCY ON THEM. |
| |
SECOND CHANCE |
|
|
|
Rev 7:1
|
| |
Revelation 7:1 After this I saw four angels standing at the four corners of the earth, holding back the four winds of the earth, so that no wind should blow on the earth or on the sea or on any tree. 2 And I saw another angel ascending from the rising of the sun, having the seal of the living God; and he cried out with a loud voice to the four angels to whom it was granted to harm the earth and the sea, 3 saying, "Do not harm the earth or the sea or the trees, until we have sealed the bond-servants of our God on their foreheads." 4 And I heard the number of those who were sealed, one hundred and forty-four thousand sealed from every tribe of the sons of Israel: 5 from the tribe of Judah, twelve thousand were sealed, from the tribe of Reuben twelve thousand, from the tribe of Gad twelve thousand, 6 from the tribe of Asher twelve thousand, from the tribe of Naphtali twelve thousand, from the tribe of Manasseh twelve thousand, 7 from the tribe of Simeon twelve thousand, from the tribe of Levi twelve thousand, from the tribe of Issachar twelve thousand, 8 from the tribe of Zebulun twelve thousand, from the tribe of Joseph twelve thousand, from the tribe of Benjamin, twelve thousand were sealed. (NAS)
These 144,000 "Triblation Saints" are still on Earth after the rapture. They have the seal fo God so they won't be harmed. |
| |
When will Jesus return? |
|
|
|
2 Thessalonians
|
| |
There are many views of Eschatology, the study of the end times. My views, briefly, are this. According to II Thes. there will be a great falling away, then Jesus will come for His own, the rapture. Then the Man of Sin will be revealed and seven years of tribulation will occur. Then Jesus will come back to reign on the earth for 1000 years. That is a nutshell version. |
| |
Do all Christians agree on the rapture? |
|
|
|
1 Thessalonians
|
| |
There is more than one interpretation of the doctrine of the rapture, as is the case with many Bible doctrines, especially when it comes to the doctrine of future things (prophecy).
. . . The main differences of opinion concern the time of the rapture. The primary theories are: 1) Pretribulation rapture; 2) Midtribulation rapture; 3) Posttribulation rapture; 3) Partial rapture, which is sort of a Marine Corps rapture where only the perfect, only the brave, only the few are worthy to be raptured before the wrath of God is poured out; 5) Postmillenial rapture; and 6) Amillenialist rapture. Take your pick.
(. . . There is also the new theory of No Rapture.)
. . . For detailed explanations of the above views of the rapture, see the Ryrie Study Bible, Moody Press, in Ryrie's article A SYNOPSIS OF BIBLE DOCTRINE, The Doctrine of Future Things. |
| |
Rapture - Bodies or souls disappear? |
|
|
|
Matt 24:27
|
| |
The Rapture and the Glorious Appearing are two different events. Left Behind is talking about the Rapture, Matthew 24 is talking about the Glorious Appearing. Our bodies will disappear on the day the Rapture takes place or there will be no mystery for those who are left behind. If the bodies are left they will only think we have died but we will be very much alive. We will have our bodies with us they just will not be the corruptible bodies we have now. Remember when Jesus rose from the dead and he went back to the house where the disciples were? He just appeared in the room but he could be touched(Luke 24:39). Matthew 24 is saying that every eye will see him when he returns. The Rapture is only for the saints, so only we will see him in the sky. The Glorious Appearing is for Judgment this is when we the saints that were raptured return with him to Judge the world(those left behind that did not get saved during the tribulation period). This computer won't leave me alone enough to type all the scriptures that go with the different events so I will send them later if you are interested. |
| |
Another Angel Flying In Midheaven |
|
|
|
Rev 14:6
|
| |
This is the same gospel. I don't know exactly where the verse I'm thinking of is found, but Pauls says in one of his epistles that (roughly) "if we, or an angel of heaven preach to you a different gospel than the one we taught, let him be accursed; I repeat--let him be accursed." Your right; it pretty much "completes" the Great Commission in my opinion, because most, if not all, of chapter 14 of Revelation jumps forward to the end of the Tribulation Hour. It really doesn't connect to Matthew 24:14. That verse in Matthew connects w/the 7th chapter of Revelation. |
| |
What are the seven seals? |
|
|
|
Revelation
|
| |
The 7 seals are the first set of judgements in the Tribulation Hour, which tech. also include the Trumpet Judgments. According to my understanding and interpretation, they are to occur during the first quarter of the Tribulation Period. By the way, I reccommend reading either REVELATION UNVEILED (Dr. Tim LaHaye) or REVELATION REVEALED (Dr. Jack Van Impe). |
| |
Pre Wrath Rapture? |
|
|
|
1 Thessalonians
|
| |
Dear EveryHome, Watch "Left Behind." I am not 'pre-tribulation' per se, but the concept was interesting. (Except the 'empty wombs' bit, implying that all babies are saved) Discuss! In Christ Jesus. |
| |
why did God create the world |
|
|
|
Gen 1:1
|
| |
God is indeed all-knowing. I think he provides suffering, pain, and evil for our benefit. Such tribulations are opportunities for us to grow in spirit. God has some big plans that we don't know about for those who have been saved, during and after the second coming, and (I don't mean to be crass, just trying to make my point), God doesn't need wimps, he needs warriors! He needs a people strong in spirit, who have suffered much and overcome! We can't control the suffering, pain, and evil that Satan brings, but we can control how we respond. If we act on faith that God is indeed loving and merciful, then surely He would never subject us to such things if He didn't know we could overcome them. The problem is, people get caught up in the world and lose sight that they *can* overcome anything Satan dishes out. Philippians 4:13, "I can do EVERYTHING [my emphasis] through him [Christ] who gives me strength." (NIV) |
| |
Pre Wrath Rapture? |
|
|
|
1 Thessalonians
|
| |
For starters... do you agree with this "definition" of Pre Wrath Rapture? I mean do you believe it is correct?
The position that the true church will be raptured when the great tribulation by Antichrist, inspired by Satan, is cut short by God's day-of-the-Lord wrath,(Matt. 24:22) which will occur between the sixth and seventh seals of Revelation, sometime during the second half of the seventieth week. (cf. Rev. 7:9-17) The persecution associated with the great tribulation of Antichrist is viewed as the wrath of Satan, whereas the events that follow
beginning with the seventh seal, are considered the wrath of God.
|
| |
Only 144,000 virgins in heaven? |
|
|
|
Revelation
|
| |
We should read the first chapters of Revelation to understand that the Lord is calling everyone to repentance. Look at Rev 3:20 "Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and dine with him, and he with Me. 21 "To him who overcomes I will grant to sit with Me on My throne, as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne. 22 "He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches."
Regarding the 144,000 God is speaking about the 12 tribues Rev 7:2 Then I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God. And he cried with a loud voice to the four angels to whom it was granted to harm the earth and the sea, 3 saying, "Do not harm the earth, the sea, or the trees till we have sealed the servants of our God on their foreheads." 4 And I heard the number of those who were sealed. One hundred and forty-four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel were sealed:
5 of the tribe of Judah twelve thousand were sealed; of the tribe of Reuben twelve thousand were sealed; of the tribe of Gad twelve thousand were sealed; 6 of the tribe of Asher twelve thousand were sealed; of the tribe of Naphtali twelve thousand were sealed; of the tribe of Manasseh twelve thousand were sealed; 7 of the tribe of Simeon twelve thousand were sealed; of the tribe of Levi twelve thousand were sealed; of the tribe of Issachar twelve thousand were sealed;
8 of the tribe of Zebulun twelve thousand were sealed; of the tribe of Joseph twelve thousand were sealed; of the tribe of Benjamin twelve thousand were sealed.
Look what it continues to say: Rev 7:9 After these things I looked, and behold, a great multitude WHICH NO ONE COULD NUMBER, of all nations, tribes, peoples, and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, with palm branches in their hands, 10 and crying out with a loud voice, saying, "Salvation belongs to our God who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb!" 11 All the angels stood around the throne and the elders and the four living creatures, and fell on their faces before the throne and worshiped God, 12 saying: "Amen! Blessing and glory and wisdom, Thanksgiving and honor and power and might, Be to our God forever and ever. Amen." 13 Then one of the elders answered, saying to me, "Who are these arrayed in white robes, and where did they come from?" 14 And I said to him, "Sir, you know." So he said to me, "These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
15 "Therefore they are before the throne of God, and serve Him day and night in His temple. And He who sits on the throne will dwell among them.
16 "They shall neither hunger anymore nor thirst anymore; the sun shall not strike them, nor any heat; 17 "for the Lamb who is in the midst of the throne will shepherd them and lead them to living fountains of waters. And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes." |
| |
What is the point? |
|
|
|
1 Thessalonians
|
| |
Dear charis… there are major differences between "date setting" and attempting to understand the "timing" of Christ's return! Coming to a conclusion, through study of Scripture, about the accuracy of the Pre Wrath Rapture position is a very healthy and needed Biblical exercise. Remember, I am Arminian and believe very deeply that apostasy is possible. Let me elaborate on the impact of this. First, if the Pre Wrath Rapture is correct, the church will enter the seventieth week of Daniel to encounter the difficulties of that period and the Antichrist himself. If it does so, having been taught and convinced of an imminent pretribulation Rapture and the absence of any personal tribulation or persecution (because you are already raptured), the consequences will be calamitous. The church will enter that period unprepared, spiritually naked, vulnerable, and ripe for the Antichrist's deception. A questioning of the trustworthiness of the Word of God will naturally follow. It could be a spiritual catastrophe - a "Pearl Harbor" of incalculable proportions - a satanically planed sneak attack. I totally agree with your admonition to live a life of expectancy and to get with the program. Perhaps here is the ultimate error of pretrib rapturism. It holds out the false hope of imminent rapture, instead of the true hope of "expectant" rapture. What Scripture does teach is "expectancy" as you so often exhort charis. Any generation could be called upon to enter the seventieth week of Daniel and there, in the midst of adversity, to remain true (remember the Arminian blood). But with the certain hope that those who endure to the end will be delivered by rapture before the Day of the Lord wrath is poured out on the unregenerate world. They will not know the hour or the day, but they will know the general time period. I believe that Pre Wrath Rapture teaching becomes a supreme catalyst for holy living (2 Peter 3:11). Charis, if what the church has been taught… no persecution… no tribulation… straight to heaven on a cloud… turns out to be incorrect… then apostasy will bloom. It will become very easy to doubt the Word of God (as you were taught it) if you are a pretriber… going through the portion of the Tribulation enacted by Satan. So let me answer your gentle question about "Why would you want to?" by saying that I believe the church should be prepared for a portion of what we call the Tribulation or she will flounder under the attack of Satan and many saved souls will become apostate. The church will be unprepared to evangelize the lost world. This plus the previously mentioned belief that Pre Wrath Rapture teaching is a genuine catalyst to holy living is my response. Blessings! |
| |
What is the point? |
|
|
|
1 Thessalonians
|
| |
Dear EveryHome, Opening up my mail just prior to bedtime is terrible! I read your answer with great interest. Though I 'abstain' from any capital 'X' label, I appreciate your Arminian views. I also believe in the possibility of apostacy, but I don't believe it is very easy. Overall, I must say that I think you are giving Satan more power than he has been given. I think this has always been the case. As a master of deceit, his most powerful weapon is that of confusing and frightening God's people. I stand by my statement that study of God's end-time plan is fine, and 'seeing through' the false prophets and false 'christs' is necessary, but submitting to sensationalism is definitely not productive. It does seem to me that some of these 'false christs' will use the 'rapture' for their purposes. A good end-time teaching will give you the ability to prepare for the coming of Jesus where you are. When they teach you to 'come over here,' I am wary. "...I know whom I have believed and I am convinced that He is able to guard what I have entrusted to Him until that day." 2 Timothy 1:12 NASB I am certain that God would not allow Satan to put us through a tribulation that we could not stand.
So...live in Christ Jesus.
|
| |
What is the point? |
|
|
|
1 Thessalonians
|
| |
Dear charis... you must live in a world that I do not live in. Christians, in my observation, fall victim to Satan even without the presence of the persecution and tribulation predicted by the Pre Wrath view. I would be interested in what you mean by "A good end-time teaching"... since that is what I am searching for and thinking that the Pre Wrath Rapture position may be just exactly that. Why do you so frequently refer to yourself as not being "capital" this or that. I appreciate your right to hold centralist views but I don't read the Bible that way. I certainly don't read Jesus that way. Issues of interpretation often focus on Scripture portions that have little or nothing to do with getting people exposed to the Word of God so they may be saved. Pet issues and arguments are a waste of time and bandwidth but I have a strong feeling that Pre Wrath is going to be incorrectly viewed in that category as your statement "submitting to sensationalism" might indicate. I am sorry you dropped the first part of your Scripture reference... I think the New Living Translation translates it well..."And that is why I am suffering here in prison. But I am not ashamed of it, for I know the one in whom I trust, and I am sure that he is able to guard what I have entrusted to him until the day of his return.2 Tim 1:12 NLT. I think this verse really points out the frequently illustrated persecution associated with true Christianity and the need to have the Lord see us through more of that to come. Although I am still pondering and praying... thinking through what you have said and the way you have said it makes me more interested in determining the validity or lack thereof.. of the Pre Wrath system of end-time thinking.You must sleep funny hours if you were going to bed when you read my last posting as it was early in the morning. Have a great day... awake or asleep!I appreciate your open heart charis. I think I do.
|
| |
WHY DOSE IT HAVE TO BE MOSSES AND ELIJAH |
|
|
|
Revelation
|
| |
Remember in Matt. 17:3 in the transfiguration scene. Moses and Elijah appeared to Peter, James, and John, ministering to Jesus on the mountain. This scene represents the scene when Jesus returns to reign. Peter, James, and John represent the people who live through the tribulation. Moses represents the people who die and go to heaven. Elijah represents the people who are raptured into heaven. Moses and Elijah are sent back to minister to the Jews in Revelation and then are killed and raised from the dead. This scripture in Matt. 17 when they minister to Christ is one of my greatest supporters for believeing they are the two witnesses. |
| |
What is the point? |
|
|
|
1 Thessalonians
|
| |
Matthew 24:24.
Dear EveryHome:
I quote from your message:
. . . "The church will enter that period unprepared, spiritually naked, vulnerable, and ripe for the Antichrist's deception. . . .
. . . if what the church has been taught… no persecution… no tribulation… straight to heaven on a cloud… turns out to be incorrect… then apostasy will bloom. It will become very easy to doubt the Word of God (as you were taught it) if you are a pretriber . . ."
. . . Your comments seem to contradict Matt 24:24, where it says:
. . . Matt 24:24 (KJV) "For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect."
. . . The key phrase here is "if it were possible."
. . . (See also John 6:37; Rom 8:28) |
| |
SECOND CHANCE |
|
|
|
Rev 7:1
|
| |
"Concerning your second question about the impossibility of being saved during the tribulation period if one had heard the gospel before the rapture occurred--I taught this for many years but then discovered some new light on this subject while studying Acts Chapter 2. This chapter covers the tribulation hour and verse 21 dogmatically declares that 'whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved'. The text in II Thessalonians 2:9-12 in context sees the antichrist enthroned. Those who trust him (antichrist) and receive the mark because of the strong delusion permeating the world are the ones who are condemned. See Revelation 14:11. I hope this helps." |
| |
SECOND CHANCE |
|
|
|
Rev 7:1
|
| |
Yes, the Lord is merciful and people will have a second chance to be saved during the tribulation.
1Thes 4:16-17 says that the dead in Christ will rise first and then we that remain shall be caught up together with them to meet Christ in the air. So here it says that all believers will be gone. Yet in Revelation 13:7 it says that the beast will be allowed to make war on the saints. This has to refer to the saints who are on earth. Verse 17 talks of those who do not receive the mark of the beast will not be able to buy or see. Those who do not receive the mark are the "tribulation saints"
Rev 19:9 states "Blessed are those who are invited to the wedding feast. Those who were raised in the rapture are the Bride of Christ so we can't be the guests - it must be the tribulation saints.
There will be no second chance AFTER death which is what 2Thes 2:10-13 is referring to. There is always a chance to be saved before physical death. Those who wait until after the rapture, if death does not claim them first, will have a chance at salvation but will have to endure the terrors of the tribulation talked about throughout the book of Revelations. |
| |
SECOND CHANCE |
|
|
|
Rev 7:1
|
| |
You are very true. There are 3 different viewpoints on the rapture and tribulation.
1)Pre-millenialism: This is the oldest of interpretation that says Christ will literally and bodily return to earth before the tribulation begins. At the end of the 1000 years he will turn the kingdom over to His father at which time God's eternal kingdom will begin.
2) A-millenialism: teaches that there will be no earthly kingdom and no 1000 year reign of Christ. Christ will take all believer out , condemn all non-believers and eternity will begin at that time.
3) Post-millenialism: teaches that there will be 1000 year kingdom but that Christ will claim his kingdom after the 1000 years have expired.
Whether you believe that people will have a second chance depends on which viewpoint you base your answer. We will not know the truth until the "Ahhh-Sooo Day", Ahh-Soo thats what He meant!
**** some material obtained from
Hal Lindsey. |
| |
SECOND CHANCE |
|
|
|
Rev 7:1
|
| |
Dear Prayon: Thanks for a very informative answer. To supplement (not to dispute nor question) your excellent answer, I respectfully submit the following:
. . . There is more than one interpretation of the doctrine of the rapture, as is the case with many Bible doctrines, especially when it comes to the doctrine of future things (prophecy). . . . The main differences of opinion concern the time of the rapture. The primary theories are: 1) Pretribulation rapture; 2) Midtribulation rapture; 3) Posttribulation rapture; 4) Partial rapture, which is sort of a Marine Corps rapture where only the perfect, only the brave, only the few are worthy to be raptured before the wrath of God is poured out; 5) Postmillenial rapture; and 6) Amillenialist rapture. Take your pick. (. . . There is also the new theory of No Rapture.) . . . For detailed explanations of the above views of the rapture, see the Ryrie Study Bible, Moody Press, in Ryrie's article A SYNOPSIS OF BIBLE DOCTRINE, The Doctrine of Future Things.
|
| |
Who is the Bride of Christ? |
|
|
|
Revelation
|
| |
Jesus Christ refered to the faithful church as his bride in the New Testament.
The Old Testament prophets (including John the Baptist), the tribulation martyrs, and the hosts of Heaven are the guests of the bridegroom. |
| |
What are the seven seals? |
|
|
|
Revelation
|
| |
Paul in his vision on the island of Patmos states that he "saw in the right hand of the one seated on the throne a scroll written on the inside and on the back it was sealed with seven seals." (Rev 5:1) The seven seals were all forms of judgement and are the first of three seven-part judgements. Each seal is opened by Christ and sets in motion the events that will an end to human history. The contents of the scroll reveal mans corrupt and perverted morals and show Gods authority over the events of human history. The seven seals contain the following:
Seal 1: A white horse with the rider carrying a bow and a crown. It came out to conquer.
Seal 2: A bright red horse - it's rider was allowed to take peace from the world.
Seal 3: A black horse with the rider holding a pair of scales in its hand. The scale symbolizes a scarcity of food.
Seal 4: A pale green horse, its rider's name was Death and Hades followed with him. They will kill 1/4 of the worlds population.
Seal 5: Tells of the cries of the slain tribulation martyrs. They were each given a white robe and told to wait a little longer.
Seal 6: Opening of this seal will produce a mighty earthquake, the moon will become red, the stars of the sky will fall, and the sun will darken. The sky will vanish and every mountain and island will be moved.
Seal 7: There will be 1/2 hour pause before the judgement of the 7th seal. 7 trumpets were given to 7 angels standing before the throne. Another angel came and was given a great quantity of incense to offer with the prayers of the saints. Then the angel took the censer filled it with fire from the altar and threw it on the earth and there was thunder, lightning and an earthquake.
Seals 1-6 are found in Revelations 6, Seal 7 is found in Revelation 8. |
| |
Point of No Return |
|
|
|
Revelation
|
| |
"Concerning your second quesiton about the impossibility of being save[d] during the tribulation period if one had heard the gospel before the rapture occurred--I taught this for many years but then discovered some new light on this subject while studying Acts Chapter 2. This chapter covers the tribulation hour and verse 21 dogmatically declares that 'whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved'. The text in II Thessalonians 2:9-12 in context sees the antichrist enthroned. Those who trust him (antichrist) and receive the mark because of the strong delusion permeating the world are the ones who are condemned. See Revelation 14:11. I hope this helps." |
| |
WHY DOSE IT HAVE TO BE MOSSES AND ELIJAH |
|
|
|
Revelation
|
| |
It could be, perhaps. We aren't really told much about them. They're supernatural power seems to be something more than human. However, they meet death which seems to be very human. It is my conviction that they will be Elijah(which we are told in the book of Malachi would return before the Great Day of the Lord) and Enoch. Both of these were taken by God BEFORE death. Therefore, they could still meet death. However, Satan contended with Michael over the body of Moses, which is interesting within itself--too many commentators skip that passage. Anyway, there is no way we can be dogmatic about it. We DO know, there will be two witnesses during the Tribulation period whom God will empower to carry out His plans. God bless you and yours. |
| |
Did Jesus know he was God? |
|
|
|
Bible general Archive 1
|
| |
Hello... with Jesus using
truths such " I and the
Father am one " and " If
you know me you know the Father , and if you know
the Father you know me "
the answer must be yes .
However , one of my favorites is when Jesus says to the "rich young
man " why do you call me good; only the Father is good , he was actually revealing His true nature .
That particular form of the word " good " in this
case means morally and essentially perfect .Only
God can fit this description . As for his
tribulations , we must never forget that He was
truly incarnate , fully
human while he walked the
earth in New Testament times . He loved his fellow man in a way we can only marvel at , while we attempt the same . Yet He always knew that the Fathers Will would be done on earth as it is in Heaven. I pray I have not made this question more cloudy ,
as it is a great wonder
that God can be Trinity ,
and a great Blessing that
one day we will understand that.
Peace ,
rsrsd |
| |
Are there (then) no mysteries? |
|
|
|
1 Cor 4:1
|
| |
I think that we need to look at the way mystery is used in the Bible and not try to take our current use of the word and try to fit that definition into the passages. wdc did a great job of explaining how God used the word mystery throughout the NT. Have you noticed at the end of first 3 1/2 years of the tribulation that God states in REV 10:7 "but in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he is about to sound, then the mystery of God is finished, as He preached to His servants the prophets." I see at this time that God goes back to dealing with Israel exclusively, the mystery of God here, like the other mysteries in the NT, is the coming together of two to become one, marriage is spoken of as a mystery and so is the Jew and the Gentile becoming one.
|
| |
who are the spirits in this verse? |
|
|
|
1 Peter
|
| |
I agree with this answer. Jesus descended into hades to the section called the bosom of Abraham and brought out the Old Testament saints. These were the believers of the Old Testament and not the non-believers who perished in the great flood of Noah. For those people there was no second chance just like today's non-believers will not have a second chance once the rapture comes and Christians are taken out of the world. Only those who never have heard the Gospel will have an opportunity during tribulation to be saved. |
| |
| To See More, Click Here... |
|
|
