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I need to know if this is a cult? |
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Titus
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When a church is starting should it not grow from 6 people within 6months?The church we are involved in has not seen any new faces ever.The Pastor lives here and not too many people can get along with her. |
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I need to know if this is a cult? |
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Titus
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The number within your church does not necessarily cause me any discomfort, but the fact that your pastor is a women. The bible clearly states what the role of elder/sheppard/pastor should be. Your pastor cannot as a woman meet these requirements. The bible is clear on this issue. |
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I need to know if this is a cult? |
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Titus
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Donnag
What make you think this church is a cult? |
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I need to know if this is a cult? |
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Titus
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Dear donnag,
Your letter struck me much like if it had been a girl writing a question like this:
I'm having problems with my boy friend, she wants to have sex before marriage.
Quite naturally I would want to deal with the gender issue before premarital sex. I've been in a few 6 membered churches and it was very good, because it was so much like a family. Now if your church is not close and people cannot get along with the pastor, that is not normal. Possibly there is more than a small problem with the very nature of your congregation's authority structure. I don't want to say a woman cannot be a pastor, for I have read some convencing arguments for the possibility of women in governing authority, but you must admit it's not an easy argument to support with Scripture.
So if it's not working, just move on. You don't have to call it a cult, or even say they are wrong; just find that place where your heart says family.
mrk |
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I need to know if this is a cult? |
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Titus
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Hello donnag! Good question!
Are there divisions within your small church? There is no problem with meeting within someone's home. I know many Amish families that do that very same thing. The real question is: Are you being spiritually fed at this church? Does the church follow the Word of God? What does this church accomplish as a body of Christ? Are there ways of 'reaching out' to the community as a church family? What is your feeling about this church after you pray? These are some 'searching' questions that you may want to ask yourself. Starting a brand new church is a blessed thing! But there are many pitfalls that the enemy will throw into your path, and your church must be on the 'lookout' by diligently keeping within the Word of God. Hopefully your 'group' of six people can begin to expand in their vision and have an 'identity' together.. Does your church have a name? It doesn't matter how large or small a church is, God can still use it! God can still draw people into it, and there needs to be some growth in your church as evidence of the spiritual growth of the members involved. But this is not always the case! There may be other reasons why your church doesn't grow. Your church is fragile here, and needs to begin growing a lot! If it is not growing, then there are some issues that need to be addressed in a "Pastor/Parish relations commitee" :) or in a 'church meeting'. That way, you can bring out some of the very things that are holding your church back from growing.
Sometimes you just have to be patient. If you know that God has called you to be a part of that church, then just be patient and God will see to it that your church will grow. Be creative and as a church begin to invite people or make yourselves visible to the community.
You said that 'not too many people can get along with her' in reference to your woman pastor. Are there specific reasons why?
Blessings,
Nolan! |
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I need to know if this is a cult? |
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Titus
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There are a lot of that find her very controlling and she curses the people we are trying to minister to.I think what I'm trying to say is that I had a dream not too long ago about (Satan worshippers surrounding a building that we were in and in the dream I wasn't allowed to pray for anyone.) I know it might just be a dream but my spirit isn't sitting well with it. |
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Will you tell us more? |
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Titus
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Donnag, You will get a lot of people giving you opinions and I'm amazed how many do so without knowing the complete situation.
When you first asked the question you implied you were worried about the size.
In this response you mention the pastor curses the people she is trying to minister to and a dream you had. What do you mean she curses the people she is trying to minister to? Does she call them bad names? Does she speak disaster into their lives? Is she not doing what you think should be done?
What exactly brought you to the church in the first place? And what is keeping you there? |
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I need to know if this is a cult? |
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Titus
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Dear Donnag,
The interpretation of your dream is too clear to me to keep my mouth shut. The satan worshippers around the building are not people but actual demons. In this situation you and your congregation are under attack. The Lord is revealing this to you (Dan. 2:22) so you can see the source of these troubles--remember our battle is not against flesh and blood (Eph. 6:12).
Just a word of advice: Sometimes such attacks are the result of people being out of order. I think God is telling you either get out, or be ready for a very serious fight. If you do not have much experience in this area, please seek a place of peace--another congregation.
Please don't pass this dream off as nothing, God speaks in dreams. He's done it though out history, and the Bible is full of guidance by dreams.
mrk
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I need to know if this is a cult? |
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Titus
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Mark
Why not wait until you have the whole story? How do you know that the dream was from God? How do you know that dream wasn’t from Satan trying to scare Donnag out of the church?
Twice now someone has asked a question in this forum about their church in both cases the consensus of opinion was run, leave, get out. When did Christians become such cowards? The Word says the Gates of Hell shall not prevail. No where in the Bible does it tell us to take the path of least resistance. In fact the Word says we will probably be hated, despised and thrown down. It also says we have the victory! Don’t we have the obligation to pray? Don’t we think God can turn a bad situation around?
Too many split from churches, that is why we have so much arguing within the Christian ranks. Quite frankly that is why we look a little foolish to the world. We claim power, victory and that prayer will change things. However when something happens we turn our tail and run. There was a long discussion in this forum on false teachers, this is exactly why there is false teachers instead of resisting we leave. The false teacher turns out a whole church of deceived, corrupted and badly taught disciples and they spread through other churches like cancer.
I don’t know anything about Donnag and this church and unless your getting your information somewhere other than this forum neither do you. Did God call Donnag to this church? If God did then he had a purpose, has that purpose been completed? What is God’s will in all of this? Why is Donnag asking the forum instead of seeking God on this? Why are we trying to answer for God? Could God be using this whole experience to move Donnag to the closer walk with Him? Was Donnag sent to the church for just this particular situation to turn it around and put it back in order? Does Donnag have another motive?
I’m not trying to be mean or spiteful here and I hope I haven’t offended you or Donnag. It’s I just take giving people advice very serious and especially when it is advice that could effect their walk with God. Let’s find out why Donnag is at the church, what does “curses the people mean”, and a few other things, what brought up the issue of size, and what Donnag thinks God wants to take place?
Let’s find out what the problem is, then we can give Biblically sound advice. Most of all it will let us know what the problem is so we a forum of believers can stand in agreement in prayer, believing our God can solve this or any problem and expect to see God be God before us.
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I need to know if this is a cult? |
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Titus
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I am not trying to discredit the Pastor as she is/was a good friend.By cursing the people I mean she calls them imbeciles,morons,etc.The church was formed out of a bible study,my husband has been warned to watch his back at work.If you must know he is working in ministry and can not really afford to be hampered in his walk with the Lord.I was so called secretary and then all of a sudden I wasn,t signing anything,and then we were not being informed of study nights.The pastor told us a bit of her testamony and I thought the dream was a warning just for her as she was a witch. |
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I need to know if this is a cult? |
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Titus
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Bother EdB,
Don't be ridiculous! This stuff is damn serious. Interpretation of dreams is from God, not hearing the evidence. I can't talk that way to her, for she is in such real danger, but I will to you, for you are confusing spiritual warfare with social problems. If you don't know or have forgotten the difference then it's time you wake up.
Have you ever cast demons out of people? Have you ever knowingly had conflict with demons? These things are not sitting around, and they mean to hurt us...That's why I say if she does not have experience with this kind of conflict then move on to a safer place.
I've been in Donnag's place, but I will not give the details, lest I give our enemy unpaid advertising, but it was way weirder than movie special effects. I am not afraid of demons, but there is a time and place for direct conflict and there is a time for strategy. Something has gone way wrong when hell is at the churches gates.
mrk |
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I need to know if this is a cult? |
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Titus
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Donnag there is still more to this story. Your husband's ministry is connected to this woman in anyway? Does your husband have the same concerns about this woman you do? It sounds like your being excluded from the ministry, why do you stay? |
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I need to know if this is a cult? |
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Titus
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Dear Donnag,
You don't need to tell me anymore details, I only ask that you find a place where your heart has a home. There is only one church in all the earth, and just because you move to another congregation, doesn't mean you are discrediting anyone. Sometimes it's time to move and you really don't know exactly why, you just know your heart says move. If that is true with you, then don't worry about what comes next. God is you guide.
mrk |
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I need to know if this is a cult? |
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Titus
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I did ask God,at first He said He had a purpose.Then a visitor came and he said that all he got was Peter I know but who are you. |
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I need to know if this is a cult? |
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Titus
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Donnag,
Are you sure the person said Peter, or did he say Paul. It's important, try to remember.
mrk |
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Mark what is driving you? |
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Titus
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Mark
What do you mean you don't need more details now her husband is involved. Your ginving advice that may be coming between a husband and a wife, without knowing what is going on. |
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Is God advising you on Donnag? |
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Titus
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Mark you say don’t be ridiculous, I didn’t think I was. I thought I was trying to get to the bottom of the story so I could give Godly, Biblically sound advice.
Mark are you telling me God gave you the interpretation of Donnag’s dream?
To answer your question have “I” ever cast out demons? No “I” never did, however I have used the authority of Jesus’ name to have them leave.
I don’t spend a lot of time with demons since they are the defeated foes. I’m really not too afraid of them because I don’t believe they can cross the blood line.
I can not say I have ever been in Donag’s place because I’m still trying to figure out where that is at.
I haven’t told Donnag to stay, to leave, to fight, to run, I haven’t done anything yet but ask questions. I just want to know what we are dealing with.
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I need to know if this is a cult? |
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Titus
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It was Paul. |
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I need to know if this is a cult? |
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Titus
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"How do you know that the dream was from God?" Good question.
Ed: Having read Sutton's offensive and inappropirate posting made 06-29-01, 1:01pm, I now make public what was originally not intended to be made public -- an excerpt from an email of mine:
Mark Sutton has graduated from giving us his feelings (as opposed to Scripture only). Now he is in the business of interpreting dreams and telling us what God meant by them.
Personally, I think more than 90 percent of a person's dreams have absolutely no meaning whatsoever. A few dreams have obvious psychological significance and often are self-interpreting. My guess is that 1 percent or less of all dreams should be taken as messages directly from God. (Is not the claim to direct (new and unique) revelation from God one of the errors of Benny Hinn?)
No need to quote Joel or Acts 2. Yes, God may speak to us through dreams. But, "in these last days [He] has spoken unto us by his Son" through the Scriptures (Hebrews 1:1-2). This is how God normally speaks to us.
I just noticed that "This thread has been temporarily restricted from appearing on the homepage," as it should be.
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I need to know if this is a cult? |
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Titus
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OK,
That's better. If the person were speaking under the influence of a demon, it would be very common for it to purposely misquote the Scripture.
I'm still very much inclined to say the person was giving voice for a demon, because that is a direct quote from a demon preserved in Scripture (Acts 19:15). And I'm very sure no demon has the right to say that to you.
If you can't tell I'm worried for you. Please follow the guidance of the Holy Spirit. He speaks to your heart, even when your mind is confused by a world of conflicting facts. Follow your guide, He will never lead you into deception.
mrk |
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I need to know if this is a cult? |
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Titus
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Donnag - A "visitor" what do you mean a visitor?
Do you mean while you were praying and God was speaking another voice came to you? Or do you mean a visitor to the church? If so what exactly did he say and in what context. |
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I need to know if this is a cult? |
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Titus
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I am beginning to think that I'll go with what the Holy Spirit has put in my heart.The person that was the visitor is a SPIRIT filled born again christian.No I won't stay and fight, only because the Lord has not called me to be demon chasing.I am not afraid of demons as He who is in me is greater than he who is in the world.THANKS FOR YOUR INPUT. |
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I need to know if this is a cult? |
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Titus
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I'm not sure what your final decision is, but if you are going to "go with what the Holy Spirit has put in your heart" then I know you have made the right decision.
Goodness and mercy follow you,
mrk |
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I need to know if this is a cult? |
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Titus
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Donnag, You should go with what the Holy Spirit has put in your heart. In your previous responses you never mentioned you had the leading of God on this. Definitely do what God has shown you to do. Donnag I just want you to make sure you haven't been incorrectly influenced by someone on this forum into believing something that is not there.
My heart goes out to you as I suspect you have left something very important out of this whole story. I pray God leads you to where you need to be. |
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I need to know if this is a cult? |
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Titus
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MARK SUTTON,
LET ME WARN YOU THAT USING ANY TYPE OF ABUSIVE OR FOUL LANGUAGE ON THIS STUDY BIBLE FORUM IS TOTALLY AND COMPLETELY OUT OF LINE. IF YOU CONTINUE TO DO THIS, THEN WE WILL HAVE NO CHOICE THEN TO GO STRAIGHT TO LOCKMAN AND HAVE THEM REVOKE YOUR MEMBERSHIP STATUS.
I WILL NOT PUT UP WITH THIS AND I WILL NOT TOLERATE ANY ABUSIVE LANGUAGE WHATSOEVER ON THE FORUM. YOU WILL BE WATCHED FROM NOW ON, MARK SUTTON.
IF THERE ARE ANY FELLOW MEMBERS OF THE FORUM THAT BELIEVE IN KEEPING THE FORUM CLEAN, THAN I ASK FOR YOUR SUPPORT IN MY STANCE AGAINST MARK SUTTON'S FOUL MOUTH.
AND I WAS UNDER THE IMPRESSION THAT WE WERE ALL GENTLEMEN HERE! I WAS WRONG. MARK, CONSIDER YOURSELF "WARNED."
THANK YOU.
NOLAN KECK |
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I need to know if this is a cult? |
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Titus
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hello Donnag. dreams are a strange thing but there is one rule that comes from Solomon. Dreams occur through much activity.the reason i say this is because dreams often tell you of what is going on in your life not others. The witchcraft you see in your dreams is in your life.My Father says Rebellion is as witchcraft. God is doing a work in a lot of peoples lives in the area of submission. Me being foremost.hehehe. the Scripture The Holy Spirit brings to mind is Jerimiah 27:8,9,10. submission even though you dont want to. So that you can be Bound by the cords of love,for you will know that you are My disciples by your love one to another. Bless you. |
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Mark what is driving you? |
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Titus
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Dear EdB,
I have read your note that you sent privately, and now I am responding to your message.. Please don't lose heart, my friend! I pray that you don't take this personally! It was by the grace of our Lord that you happened upon the Forum in the first place, please don't let this 'consume' you or get the best of you, my friend! You have way too much to contribute to the Forum, way too much education and expertise not to continue on strong in your faith and in your Christian life! Sir, if you ever find this Forum causing you pain, then its time to get away and refresh yourself through other means. Then you can come back, my friend! All that we can do now is to pray for Mark Sutton and donnag. We must keep her in our prayers! Ed, I'll start..
"Dear Sovereign Lord in heaven, we come before You this moment so that You will help to strengthen my fellow brother Ed! I pray that You will sustain him and help him not to take responsibility for the actions of others on the Forum.. Lord we lift up to You donnag, who is married and facing a crisis situation with her church! We pray that You will have Your hand in her situation, and You alone Lord know what is going on there, and we pray that You Lord would help her and protect her and all the people involved from the wiles of the enemy! Dear Lord Jesus, we also lift up to you Mark Sutton.. We pray that you would bless him in his life, and that he would take heed of correction and continue on in a joyous Christian life with a Christlike spirit! Dear Lord Jesus, we ask these things in Your Holy Name."
Amen
Dear brother Ed, I will continue to pray for you..
Nolan Keck |
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I need to know if this is a cult? |
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Titus
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donnag ... I would say it is not a cult. History shows that cults grow, because they find some way to appeal to people.
What are the marks of a cult? Go to Gal 1:6-12.
- it draws even Christians away
- it is a different gospel, which is not really good news
- the message will cause confusion
- it perverts the gospel of Christ
- the message seeks approval of men, not God
- it is something man made up
Those are the signs in this passage.
Searching Scripture
Steve |
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Mark, Are you saying you interpet dreams |
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Titus
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Mark ... Are you saying you interpet dreams?
-What is the timing and methodology from the time you hear the dream, until you say what it means?
-Can you interpet all drerams?
-Are you always right?
-Why do you think interpeting dreams is not on any spiritual gift list?
Steve |
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I need to know if this is a cult? |
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Titus
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Dear Nolan,
I assure you I have no idea what you're talking about, but that's probably because I am no gentlemen (I Chron. 22:8).
mrk |
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