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Interpretation of Bible teachings |
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James 5:14
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Prayer is the more significant of the two ministries performed by the elders, for the overall emphasis of the paragraph belongs on prayer. There are a number of reasons for understanding the application of oil as medicinal rather than sacramental. The word "anoint" is not the usual word for sacramental or ritualistic anointing.
Three different Greek words are translated "anoint" in the NT. Each expresses the same basic idea of rubbing or spreading oil, perfume, or ointment. It is a well-documented fact that oil was one of the most common medicines of biblical times (ISA 1:6 From the sole of your foot to the top of your head
there is no soundness--
only wounds and welts
and open sores,
not cleansed or bandaged
or soothed with oil.; LK 10:34 He went to him and bandaged his wounds, pouring on oil and wine. Then he put the man on his own donkey, took him to an inn and took care of him.
[NIV]). |
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You are saved when you accept Christ . |
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John 3:5
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You are right, you must be baptized. It is a sacrament of forgivesness and rebirth. It is not a symbol. You are missing a key scripture verse. (John 3:5) where Jesus states: "Amen,amen, I say to you, no one can enter the kingdom of God without being born of water and spirit."
Jesus is clearly talking about baptism in this verse. Read John 1:32 just before Jesus teaches Nicodemus about being born again. In this verse Christ, Himself was baptized by John the Baptist. Jesus goes down into the water and is baptized, the heavens open and the Holy Spirit descends upon him in the form of a dove. Christ did not have to be born again but He showed us what we must do in order to inherit the kingdom of God. The only logical conclusion one can make from the Biblical evidence is being born again is when one is properly baptized. The saving grace is baptism.
Do you really believe in the once saved always saved theory. Again look at scripture. Scripture does not say "ALL" you have to do is accept Me [Jesus] as your Lord and Savior then you are saved from damnation.
This is what the Bible says:
Past Event (I have been saved)
Rom 8:24-for in hope we were saved
Eph 2:5,8-by grace you have been saved through faith
2Tim 1:9-he saved us,called us, according to his grace
Tit 3:5 he saved us thru bath of rebirth, renewal by Holy Spirit
Present Process (I am being saved)
Phil 2:12 work out your salvation with fear and trembling
1 Pet 1:9 as you attain the goal of your faith,salvation
Future Event (I will be saved)
Mt 10:22 he who endures to the end will be saved
Mt24:13 he who preseveres to the end will be saved
Mk 8:35 whoever loses his life for my sake will save it
Acts 15:11 we shall be saved through the grace of Jesus
Rom5:9-10 since we are justified, we shall be saved
Rom 13:11 salvation is nearer now than first believed
1Cor3:15 he will be saved, but only as through fire
1Cor 5:5 deliver man to Satan so his spirit may be saved
Heb9:28 Jesus will appear second time, to bring salvation |
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Is church attendance important? |
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NT general
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I do think church attendance is important because as Christians were are all members of the Body of Christ-as Christians we are a part of the new people of God-we should not live out our spiritual lives in isolation-we need to belong to somekind of Christian fellowship-at the same time I do not think one will not go to heaven if he does not attend church-but he or she should seek out fellowship with other Christians-we need each other spiritually. We do need to sit under the preaching of the Bible-the sacraments-the gifts of other Christians-also the visible church is to be a light to the lost world-we need to support the visible church as it takes the gospel to sinners-missions-local community outreach-etc. . . We suffer spiritually if we neglect fellowshipping with other Christians. |
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Preaching a sacrament? |
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Matt 4:17
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Fellow saints, Is preaching a sacrament of the church? Why?
In Jesus' name, charis |
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Preaching a sacrament? |
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Matt 4:17
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In our circles (Dutch Reformed) we see preaching not as a sacrament but a means of grace. We also would not separate the Preaching of the Word from the sacraments. The Word of God must explain the sacraments-without the preaching of the Bible the sacraments remind just outward signs with no inward meaning. I will quote from the Heidelberg Catechism "Question 66: What are the sacraments? Answer: The sacraments are holy visible signs and seals, appointed by God for this end, that by the use thereof He may more fully declare and seal to us the promise of the gospel, namely, that He grants us freely the remission of sin and life eternal for the sake of that one sacrifice of Christ accomplished on the cross. Question 67: Are both Word and sacrament, then ordained and appointed for this end, that they may direct our faith to the sacrifice of Jesus Christ on the cross as the only ground of our salvation? Answer: Yes, indeed, for the Holy Ghost teaches us in the gospel, and assures us by the sacraments, that the whole of our salvation depends upon that one sacrifice of Christ which He offered for us on the cross. Question 68: How many sacraments has Christ instituted in the new covenant or testament? Answer: Two, namely, holy baptism and the holy supper." |
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Unbaptized children |
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Bible general Archive 1
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What are the Sacraments?
The sacraments are defined in the Prayer Book as "outward and visible signs of inward and spiritual grace, given by Christ as sure and certain means by which we receive that grace." This means that we recognize God as active and sustaining in our lives, and through the sacraments we participate in this sustaining and saving power. The two main sacraments in the Episcopal Church are the sacrament of Baptism, in which we are initiated into new life with Christ, and the Eucharist, in which we remember and celebrate Jesus' life, death, and resurrection. Baptism happens only once in a person's life, but the Eucharist is celebrated at least once a week. The other traditional rites that have sacramental character include confirmation, ordination, marriage, reconciliation (confession and absolution), and anointing of the sick.
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Communion, how often? |
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1 Cor 11:25
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Of course unbelievers should be excluded, as it is a sacrament of the church. We do communion about once a month in my church, but sometimes I would like to see it done more often. I am torn on whether it would breed disrespect due to familiarity or not, but I myself enjoy celebrating both the communion with our Lord Jesus as well as the communion with my brothers and sisters in Christ. |
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Covenants and Dispensation? |
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Eph 1:10
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I have extracted stuff for con and pro. Like other topics, it is not important to me. Steve
Con ....
Dispensationalism is a form of premillennialism originating among the Plymouth Brethren in the early 1830s. The father of dispensationalism, John Nelson Darby, educated as a lawyer and ordained Anglican priest, was one of the chief founders of the Plymouth Brethren movement, which arose in reaction against the perceived empty formalism of the Church of England. To the Brethren the true invisible church was to come out of the apostate visible Church, rejecting such forms as priesthood and sacraments.
Source: http://www.frii.com/ then
gosplow/disp2.html ... or use a tidle
Pro ...
Some critics assume that dispensationalism is a recent doctrine invented by Dr. C. I. Scofield, editor of the famous Scofield Reference Bible, and J. N. Darby; implying that dispensationalism is a doctrine of modern times and does not have Biblical authority. However, research will show that neither C. I. Scofield or J. N. Darby are the inventors of dispensationalism or the final authority on the subject.
From the first century, writers believed in different economies or administrations. Bible instructor Larry V. Crutchfield, of Baumholder, West Germany, has written an article titled Ages and Dispensations Of The Ante-Nicene Fathers. In it he points out that the Fathers of early church history believed in divisions of history based on God's dealings with man. He states, Among those whose doctrine of ages and dispensations has survived from the Ante-Nicene period are Justin Martyr, Irenaeus, Tertullian, Methodius, and to a minor degree Victorinus of Petau.
Crutchfield says that Barnabas year-day tradition is the earliest budding of the dispensational understanding of God's dealings with man.
Source: http://www.biblebelievers.com/BlueDISP.html |
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Calvanism -vs- Arminianism? |
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Rom 5:6
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I know the distinctives of Pelagianism. I do not think that Arminianism is coherent unless it denies all three of those things. TULIP, as silly an acronym as it may be, is a self-referential system. You cannot pull one letter out without getting rid of all of them. Thus, since Arminians deny particular redemption, they must also deny total depravity and salvation by grace. At least, you have to do this if you want to remain consistant.
Your statements in your second paragraph are immediately contradictory. Allow me to demonstrate. 1) Salvation is wholly a work of God. [This would mean that nothing we do is involved. Salvation depends on divine fiat.] 2) Salvation comes to those who receive the offer of salvation. [If salvation is only an _offer_ is not wholly an act of God]. You can't have it both ways. The time for man to make a choice ended with Adam. That was the covenant of works. As soon as you add any aspect of choosing you turn the atonement into a pass/fail prohibition test, just like eating the fruit.
If you believe what you say you do, why aren't you Catholic? They believe exactly the same thing and they've got their theology worked out completely. Plus they've got good views on worship, and even though their opinions on the Sacrament are pretty weird, they're often better than most Protestant churches. So if you believe what you say you do, why aren't you Catholic?
Where did you go to college? And how can you possibly get around the statements of God's sovereign choice in Romans? I'd be fascinated to hear how you can interpret "I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy" as anything but elective in nature.
You sat under _Hasker_?! Yes, I've read him. Heard him speak actually. May God have mercy upon you. In case you hadn't been following him lately, Hasker is currently at the forefront of the utterly godless and pagan "open theism" movement (and I will neither retract that nor apologize for it). I couldn't get through the book without throwing it across the room on a number of occasions. Don't get me started on Hasker. Suffice it to say that I do not regard him as a Christian brother. You can believe a lot, but open theism is too far. Enough on that. I really don't want to talk about it here or at all, for that matter. |
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Baptism, Trinity, and Teachers? |
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Acts 2:38
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Dear Ray,
Thanks for the welcome. The Bible never discussed infant baptism. It did stress dedication of infants to the Lord. The problem with infant baptism is one of the understanding and commitment of the person being baptized. While the Bible describes all as having a sin nature, because of Adam's fall, an infant has no personal sin yet. More importantly though is that the child is unable to make a conscious decision to repent and turn his life over to Christ. This is the major flaw with infant baptism. Paul told the Greeks of Athens, I believe that while God once winked at man's ignorance, that He now called upon all to repent. The Catholics added a second step or sacrament called Confirmation during which the child, now grown beyond the age of reason, is asked to decide for himself to follow Christ. During this ceremony, the local bishop would anoint the child's head with oil and lay hands on the child so as to "impart the Holy Spirit" to him.
I was Catholic for 38 years, been there, done that, but never felt or experienced anything during that ceremony like I did upon receiving the baptism of the Holy Ghost after joining a Pentecostal Church. Since making that move, I have seen God's signs and wonders, I have witnessed spiritual gifts in operation including the Word of Knowledge, the Word of Wisdom, Discerning of Spirits, Miracles of Healing, the Gift of Tongues and Interpretation of Tongues and people moving in the Gift of Prophesy. (And, yes the prophesies came true.)
The Apostle Paul related his experience after being confronted by Jesus on the road to Damascus. He testified in Acts 22 what Annanias told him:
Acts 22:12 And one Ananias, a devout man according to the law, having a good report of all the Jews which dwelt there,
Acts 22:13 Came unto me, and stood, and said unto me, Brother Saul, receive thy sight. And the same hour I looked up upon him.
Acts 22:14 And he said, The God of our fathers hath chosen thee, that thou shouldest know his will, and see that Just One, and shouldest hear the voice of his mouth.
Acts 22:15 For thou shalt be his witness unto all men of what thou hast seen and heard.
Acts 22:16 And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.
Cordially,
Bro. Glen
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where does he ask that,baptized or not |
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Acts 2:38
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Yes, it is true that one must recognize Jesus, accept His sacrifice and repent. This is the heart issue, otherwise baptism is nothing more than taking a bath. However we are also dealing with a faith issue here. It is easy for people to go around saying "Yes, I believe," but it is another thing entirely to put that belief into action.
Someone can give me a check and I can believe that I have been given some money, but unless I deposit or cash the check it does me no good. God is asking believers to give Him more than mere lip service. He is asking for us to show Him that we love Him by obeying His command to baptize and to be baptized. It is an act of commitment and when we are baptized we let the world and the devil see by our actions that we have chosen to be publicly identified with the death, burial, and resurection of Jesus Christ.
As I said in a previous message, there are most certainly exceptions to the rule and Jesus is merciful, but that doesn't mean we should throw out the rule and live by the exceptions. That crosses the line into disobedience and rebellion. God instituted the sacrament, Jesus commanded it in His own words. Should mere man thumb his nose at almighty God, Who holds our salvation in His hand, by telling Him that we don't accept His way of doing things and He will have to accept us on our terms? God will be the judge in the end. |
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Learning from Suffering |
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Heb 5:8
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"The Sacrament Of The Saint"
"Let them that suffer according to the will of God, commit the keeping of their souls to Him in well-doing." 1 PETER 4:19
"To choose to suffer means that there is something wrong; to choose God's will even if it means suffering is a very different thing. No healthy saint ever chooses suffering; he chooses God's will, as Jesus did, whether it means suffering or not. No saint dare interfere with the discipline of suffering in another saint.
The saint who satisfies the heart of Jesus will make other saints strong and mature for God. The people who do us good are never those who sympathize with us, they always hinder, because sympathy enervates. No one understands a saint but the saint who is nearest to the Savior. If we accept the sympathy of a saint, the reflex feeling is- Well, God is dealing hardly with me. That is why Jesus said self-pity was of the devil (see Matt. 16:23). Be merciful to God's reputation. It is easy to blacken God's character because God never answers back, He never vindicates Himself. Beware of the thought that Jesus needed sympathy in His earthly life; He refused sympathy from man because He knew far too wisely that no one on earth understood what He was after. He took sympathy from His Father only, and from the angels in heaven (cf. Luke 15:10).
Notice God's unutterable waste of saints, according to the judgment of the world. God plants His saints in the most useless places. We say- God intends me to be here because I am so useful. Jesus never estimated His life along the line of the greatest use. God puts His saints where they will glorify Him, and we are no judges at all of where that is."
-Taken from August 10th of the devotional "My Utmost for His Highest" by Oswald Chambers. |
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Who are the Pentecostals? |
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Acts 1:8
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"Pentecostalism is a modern American Christian movement that emerged out of the Holiness movement around the turn of the twentieth century. Two key figures in the genesis of Pentecostalism were Charles Fox Parham (1873-1929), the founder of Bethel Bible College in Topeka, Kansas, and William J. Seymour (1870-1922), an African American Holiness evangelist from Louisiana. Through his study of Paul's letters, Parham became convinced that the gifts of the Holy Spirit that were evident in apostolic times are available to Christians in modern times as well. Of particular interest was speaking in tongues, the first incidence of which occurred at Bethel Bible College in 1901. Five years later, Seymour, who had studied at Bethel with Parham, led a revival on Azusa Street in Los Angeles that lasted for several months. Participants experienced a 'baptism in the Holy Ghost.' Some were healed of illnesses, while others spoke in tongues. Thousands from across the U.S. traveled to Azusa Street and carried the message back to their home states.
The movement eventually became known as "Pentecostal" because of its similarity to the first Pentecost, fifty days after Christ's resurrection, when the Spirit came upon the early Christians and enabled them to speak in unfamiliar languages. There are a great variety of Pentecostal churches, most of which are theologically and socially conservative. In general, Pentecostals are in the evangelical tradition and teach that the Holy Spirit continues to act as it did at the first Pentecost. Teaching that contemporary Christians can receive the same spiritual gifts that the apostles did, many Pentecostal churches use the word apostolic in their names.
Seeking and receiving the gift of tongues is regarded as a sign of the baptism of the Holy Spirit, and in many Pentecostal churches this is a requirement for full discipleship. Other spiritual gifts, such as healing, love, joy, prophecy, and answers to prayer, also make up Pentecostals' experience of God. Pentecostals are generally less bound to traditional forms of worship than are other churches, and many have adapted contemporary music for evangelistic purposes. Pentecostal churches that minimize traditional liturgical practice refer to rites such as baptism as "ordinances" rather than as "sacraments." The term "Neo-Pentecostalism" is often used to describe churches that embrace charismatic practices, such as speaking in tongues, but not the Holiness tradition of the older Pentecostal bodies. Even traditional, liturgical churches, such as the Episcopal Church, now have charismatic or Pentecostal parishes.
In general, Pentecostal denominations are Protestant and evangelical, but many have been influenced by the fundamentalist movement. They commonly hold to beliefs in original sin, salvation through the atoning blood of Christ, the virgin birth and Deity of Jesus, the divine inspiration and literal infallibility of the Scriptures, pre-millennialism (the return of Jesus Christ prior to his thousand-year reign on earth), and future rewards and punishments. Two sacraments are found in most groups: baptism, usually by immersion, and the Lord's Supper. Some of the smaller bodies also observe foot washing. Pentecostals are generally trinitarian; but they place great emphasis on the direct action of the Holy Spirit, which is manifested in a "baptism in the Spirit" accompanied by spiritual gifts."
From the "Handbook of Denominations" pg. 266 |
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Drinking wine- pros and cons? |
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Eph 5:18
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Greetings cheeky!
Wine is made from grapes (Gen 40:11; Gen 49:11; Isa 25:6; Jer 40:10; Jer 40:12), Made from pomegranates (Song 8:2), Kept in: Jars (Jer 13:12; Jer 48:12), Skins (Josh 9:4; Josh 9:13; Job 32:19; Matt 9:17; Luke 5:37-38), Bottles(Josh 9:4; Josh 9:13; Job 32:19; Jer 13:12; Jer 48:12; Matt 9:17; Luke 5:37-38), Cellars for (1 Chr 27:27) New wine (Hag 1:11), Old wine (Luke 5:39), Medicinal use of (Prov 31:6-7), Medicinal use of, recommended by Paul to Timothy (1 Tim 5:23), Used at meals (Matt 26:27-29; Mark 14:23), Made by Jesus at the marriage feast in Cana(John 2:9-10), Sacramental use of
(Matt 26:27-29; Luke 22:17-20), Forbidden to priests while on duty
(Lev 10:9; Ezek 44:21),
Forbidden to Nazarites (Num 6:2-3)..
Taken from Nave's Topical Bible |
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Catholics and Heaven??? |
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Eph 2:8
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I believe a Catholic can go to Heaven. But not by anything he can do. Not through baptism, masses, communion or other sacraments can you be saved. No one can pray to get someone else into Heaven. This is a personal decision only the individual can make. If a person, regardless of what denomination they are, realizes their sinful state, repents of it, and asks Jesus Christ to come into his heart, acknowledging that He died for their sins and asking Him to be Lord of their lives will they go to Heaven. That is the being "born again" experience Jesus talks about. Unfortunately, the Catholic church also teaches things that causes the people to lose fellowship (not salvation) with the Father. Among those is praying to Mary and saints.
I don't believe that if you are a member of any particular church that it automatically gains you admission to Heaven. You have to have that personal relationship with God that only comes from being born again.
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What does come by water and blood mean? |
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1 John 5:6
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There are at least three views:
1) The "blood and water" that came out of Jesus' side when he was pierced by a spear (Jhn 19:34). -But, no other NT text mentions water in connection with the cross.
-The order of words in John 19 is different from that in in this passage.
2) The blood stands for the Lord's Supper and the water for baptism. This fits better with verse 8 than verse 6, for the verb here indicates a completed act, not a repeating sacrament, as in verse 8.
-The order the same as that in John 3:5, which is used.
-It would be unique to find the single term "blood" standing for the Lord's Supper.
3) The water as stands for the baptism of Jesus and the blood for his death on the cross.
-The context in 1 John argues that "Jesus is the Son of God" (v 5).
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Why are they placed alongside the Spirit as witnesses? and ... How do these inanimate elements bear witness?
The Spirit is the central witness of the trio and the one most emphasized by John. The other two are historical events, but they stand as things that happened. Jesus was really on earth, He was baptized and He was hung on the cross.
Steve
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Is fear or doubt unforgivable? |
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Mark 3:28
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With all due respect, you're completely missing the point. Severe depression isn't about hatred or unforgiveness or the lack of repentance, it's about mental illness. These people are sick. The level of despair and misery that can occur is an agony beyond comprehension. These poor people are no more capable of rational thought than those who suffer from other debilitating mental illnesses. That's one of the reasons psychiatrists strongly advise severely depressed people against making life-changing decisions - they can't make a reasoned, balanced choice.
Even the Catholic Church is rethinking its' position on suicides for this reason. Many priests feel that the very fact that someone has taken their own life is evidence that they were not in a normal, rational, morally accountable state.
I cannot and will not believe that God will condemn someone like that. And as mentioned elsewhere in this thread, if you're a Christian, you have salvation as the gift of God through Jesus. Even were I to grant that suicide is a sin, it is no worse (or better) than any other sin. It is forgivable - indeed it is already forgiven. If being sinless is a requirement to avoid damnation, than Hell is going to be a very busy place. Being a Protestant, I do not believe in the Catholic sacrament of Extreme Unction, or the "Last Rites" to wipe away all sin in the instant before death. It's not necessary. God loves me, Christ died for me, and I am saved by grace through faith.
Yours in Christ,
Jim D. |
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water into wine |
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John 2:1
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Tim -
This is really interesting - thanks for posting it. On your comment "Even in English, the word "wine" didn’t come to mean an alcoholic beverage until about the mid 20th century", that doesn't sound right to me. 19th century English literature is rife with references to wine, and it's pretty clear in context that the references are to an alcoholic beverage. Can you elaborate?
I'll admit I'm no expert on either 1st century culture, or winemaking (g), but there are a couple of things I wanted to mention, and get your thoughts on here:
1. In Matthew 9:17, the reference to not putting new wine in old wineskins most likely has nothing to do with preventing fermentation. In fact, short of cooking (pasteurizing) or freezing grape juice, it's just about impossible to stop it from fermenting. If you purchase unpasteurized grape juice, and let it sit in your refrigerator, you will slow down the process somewhat, but you will ultimately end up with wine or vinegar. I visited the website for Welch's, arguably the "grape juice gurus", and found this interesting little factoid: "1869 - Dr. Thomas Bramwell Welch, a physician and dentist by profession,
successfully pasteurizes Concord grape juice to produce an "unfermented sacramental wine" for fellow parishioners at his church in Vineland, N.J., where he is communion steward. His achievement marks the beginning of the processed fruit juice industry."
2. The reason that ancient winemakers didn't like to put new wine into old wineskins is that the fermentation process generates gases, which increase the pressure inside the wineskin, causing it to stretch and become brittle. If you reused a wineskin, there was a good chance the pressure buildup would cause the skin to split, ruining both wine and container. (Once fermentation was completed, old skins could be used as containers for the now stable beverage.) I don't claim this as an original to me - I swiped it out of Expositors Bible Commentary.
3. It's a common misconception that grapes are harvested, pressed into juice, and then some kind of fermentation agent is added to cause the transformation from juice to wine. It doesn't usually happen that way. The fermentation process generally starts while the grapes are still on the vine, and it's completely natural and unpreventable. "Table" grapes are intentionally harvested before this can happen, although it will still happen to them even after harvesting, if they're left too long.
I really want to understand your point of view better. I certainly don't encourage alcohol consumption for anyone today, but I don't discourage it except when it's taken to excess. But I can't figure out how anyone in biblical times could avoid it. If you press ANY fruit into juice, you will very quickly get alcohol.
I really do want to understand this better - help me out!
Yours in Christ,
Jim D. |
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Do you rest on the Sabbath? |
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Col 2:16
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Dear christiankl, here is some information on the Sabbath that you might find interesting..
"The two last reasons, however, must not be numbered among the shadows of old. Rather, they are equally valid for all ages. Hence, though the sabbath is abrogated, it so happens among us that we still convene on certain days in order to hear the word of God, to break the [mystic] bread of the Supper, and to offer public prayers; and, moreover, in order that some relaxation from their toil be given to servants and workingmen. As our human weakness does not allow such assemblies to meet every day, the day observed by the Jews has been taken away (as a good device for eliminating superstition) and another day has been destined to this use. This was necessary for securing and maintaining order and peace in the Church.
As the truth therefore was given to the Jews under a figure, so to us on the contrary truth is shown without shadows in order, first of all, that we meditate all our life on a perpetual sabbath from our works so that the Lord may operate in us by his spirit; secondly, in order that we observe the legitimate order of the Church for listening to the word of God, for admin-istering the sacraments, and for public prayers; thirdly, in order that we do not oppress inhumanly with work those who are subject to us. [From Instruction in Faith, Calvin's own 1537 digest of the Institutes, sec. 8, "The Law of the Lord"]."
Part 2 of 2
From the Archives at "Grace to you" at http://www.gty.org
Grace to you!
--Nolan |
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How long do we suffer before we pray? |
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James 5:13
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"5:13 Suffering should be the cause for prayer, happiness the reason for praise.
5:14-15 God may heal directly, through medicine, or in answer to prayer, as here. The oil is a symbol of the presence of God (cf. Ps. 23:5); it may also have been considered medicinal in James’s day (cf. Luke 10:34), though hardly as being effective for all diseases. Prayers of faith are answered not simply because they are prayed in faith but only if they are prayed in the will of God (1 John 5:14). God does not always think it best to heal (cf. 2 Cor. 12:8; 2 Tim. 4:20). Here the healing is dependent on confession of sin. Historically, the Roman Catholic sacrament of extreme unction developed out of this practice, but the significance is entirely changed, for the Roman Catholic rite has death in view, not recovery. Some understand the word sick in verse 14 to refer to spiritual, not physical, weakness and the different word translated sick in verse 15 to mean “weary” (these meanings are legitimate). Thus the discouraged person will be restored to spiritual vigor by the elders’ prayer and anointing." (Ryrie's Study Bible)
--Nolan
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Follow up Peter first Pope |
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Bible general Archive 1
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Martin Luther's 95 Thesis to the Catholic Church
"DISPUTATION OF DOCTOR MARTIN LUTHER ON THE POWER AND EFFICACY OF INDULGENCES
OCTOBER 31, 1517
Out of love for the truth and the desire to bring it to light, the following propositions will be discussed at Wittenberg, under the presidency of the Reverend Father Martin Luther, Master of Arts and of Sacred Theology, and Lecturer in Ordinary on the same at that place. Wherefore he requests that those who are unable to be present and debate orally with us, may do so by letter.
In the Name our Lord Jesus Christ. Amen.
1. Our Lord and Master Jesus Christ, when He said Poenitentiam agite, willed that the whole life of believers should be repentance.
2. This word cannot be understood to mean sacramental penance, i.e., confession and satisfaction, which is administered by the priests.
3. Yet it means not inward repentance only; nay, there is no inward repentance which does not outwardly work divers mortifications of the flesh.
4. The penalty [of sin], therefore, continues so long as hatred of self continues; for this is the true inward repentance, and continues until our entrance into the kingdom of heaven.
5. The pope does not intend to remit, and cannot remit any penalties other than those which he has imposed either by his own authority or by that of the Canons.
6. The pope cannot remit any guilt, except by declaring that it has been remitted by God and by assenting to God's remission; though, to be sure, he may grant remission in cases reserved to his judgment. If his right to grant remission in such cases were despised, the guilt would remain entirely unforgiven.
7. God remits guilt to no one whom He does not, at the same time, humble in all things and bring into subjection to His vicar, the priest.
8. The penitential canons are imposed only on the living, and, according to them, nothing should be imposed on the dying.
9. Therefore the Holy Spirit in the pope is kind to us, because in his decrees he always makes exception of the article of death and of necessity.
10. Ignorant and wicked are the doings of those priests who, in the case of the dying, reserve canonical penances for purgatory.
11. This changing of the canonical penalty to the penalty of purgatory is quite evidently one of the tares that were sown while the bishops slept.
12. In former times the canonical penalties were imposed not after, but before absolution, as tests of true contrition.
13. The dying are freed by death from all penalties; they are already dead to canonical rules, and have a right to be released from them.
14. The imperfect health [of soul], that is to say, the imperfect love, of the dying brings with it, of necessity, great fear; and the smaller the love, the greater is the fear.
15. This fear and horror is sufficient of itself alone (to say nothing of other things) to constitute the penalty of purgatory, since it is very near to the horror of despair.
16. Hell, purgatory, and heaven seem to differ as do despair, almost-despair, and the assurance of safety.
17. With souls in purgatory it seems necessary that horror should grow less and love increase.
18. It seems unproved, either by reason or Scripture, that they are outside the state of merit, that is to say, of increasing love.
19. Again, it seems unproved that they, or at least that all of them, are certain or assured of their own blessedness, though we may be quite certain of it.
20. Therefore by "full remission of all penalties" the pope means not actually "of all," but only of those imposed by himself.
21. Therefore those preachers of indulgences are in error, who say that by the pope's indulgences a man is freed from every penalty, and saved;
22. Whereas he remits to souls in purgatory no penalty which, according to the canons, they would have had to pay in this life.
23. If it is at all possible to grant to any one the remission of all penalties whatsoever, it is certain that this remission can be granted only to the most perfect, that is, to the very fewest.
24. It must needs be, therefore, that the greater part of the people are deceived by that indiscriminate and highsounding promise of release from penalty.
25. The power which the pope has, in a general way, over purgatory, is just like the power which any bishop or curate has, in a special way, within his own diocese or parish.
26. The pope does well when he grants remission to souls [in purgatory], not by the power of the keys (which he does not possess), but by way of intercession.
27. They preach man who say that so soon as the penny jingles into the money-box, the soul flies out [of purgatory]."
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Follow up Peter first Pope |
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Bible general Archive 1
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Martin Luther's 95 Thesis (cont.)
28. It is certain that when the penny jingles into the money-box, gain and avarice can be increased, but the result of the intercession of the Church is in the power of God alone.
29. Who knows whether all the souls in purgatory wish to be bought out of it, as in the legend of Sts. Severinus and Paschal.
30. No one is sure that his own contrition is sincere; much less that he has attained full remission.
31. Rare as is the man that is truly penitent, so rare is also the man who truly buys indulgences, i.e., such men are most rare.
32. They will be condemned eternally, together with their teachers, who believe themselves sure of their salvation because they have letters of pardon.
33. Men must be on their guard against those who say that the pope's pardons are that inestimable gift of God by which man is reconciled to Him;
34. For these "graces of pardon" concern only the penalties of sacramental satisfaction, and these are appointed by man.
35. They preach no Christian doctrine who teach that contrition is not necessary in those who intend to buy souls out of purgatory or to buy confessionalia.
36. Every truly repentant Christian has a right to full remission of penalty and guilt, even without letters of pardon.
37. Every true Christian, whether living or dead, has part in all the blessings of Christ and the Church; and this is granted him by God, even without letters of pardon.
38. Nevertheless, the remission and participation [in the blessings of the Church] which are granted by the pope are in no way to be despised, for they are, as I have said, the declaration of divine remission.
39. It is most difficult, even for the very keenest theologians, at one and the same time to commend to the people the abundance of pardons and [the need of] true contrition.
40. True contrition seeks and loves penalties, but liberal pardons only relax penalties and cause them to be hated, or at least, furnish an occasion [for hating them].
41. Apostolic pardons are to be preached with caution, lest the people may falsely think them preferable to other good works of love.
42. Christians are to be taught that the pope does not intend the buying of pardons to be compared in any way to works of mercy.
43. Christians are to be taught that he who gives to the poor or lends to the needy does a better work than buying pardons;
44. Because love grows by works of love, and man becomes better; but by pardons man does not grow better, only more free from penalty.
45. Christians are to be taught that he who sees a man in need, and passes him by, and gives [his money] for pardons, purchases not the indulgences of the pope, but the indignation of God.
46. Christians are to be taught that unless they have more than they need, they are bound to keep back what is necessary for their own families, and by no means to squander it on pardons.
47. Christians are to be taught that the buying of pardons is a matter of free will, and not of commandment.
48. Christians are to be taught that the pope, in granting pardons, needs, and therefore desires, their devout prayer for him more than the money they bring.
49. Christians are to be taught that the pope's pardons are useful, if they do not put their trust in them; but altogether harmful, if through them they lose their fear of God.
50. Christians are to be taught that if the pope knew the exactions of the pardon-preachers, he would rather that St. Peter's church should go to ashes, than that it should be built up with the skin, flesh and bones of his sheep.
51. Christians are to be taught that it would be the pope's wish, as it is his duty, to give of his own money to very many of those from whom certain hawkers of pardons cajole money, even though the church of St. Peter might have to be sold.
52. The assurance of salvation by letters of pardon is vain, even though the commissary, nay, even though the pope himself, were to stake his soul upon it.
53. They are enemies of Christ and of the pope, who bid the Word of God be altogether silent in some Churches, in order that pardons may be preached in others.
54. Injury is done the Word of God when, in the same sermon, an equal or a longer time is spent on pardons than on this Word.
55. It must be the intention of the pope that if pardons, which are a very small thing, are celebrated with one bell, with single processions and ceremonies, then the Gospel, which is the very greatest thing, should be preached with a hundred bells, a hundred processions, a hundred ceremonies." |
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Follow up Peter first Pope |
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Bible general Archive 1
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Brian.g writes: "ML left the Catholic Church and built his own Church based upon two premises, which continue through today - love God and hate Catholics."
NOT REALLY!
What Luther built was based upon these two principles: 1) Sola Scriptura; and 2) "faith only." I don't know the Latin phrase, but it means "the just shall live by faith." Salvation is by grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone (Romans 3:28; Romans 4:4-5).
Martin Luther never "left" the Roman Catholic church. He was excommunicated by Pope Leo X in the year 1521.
1520 A.D. when Luther was 36 years old.
June 15 Pope Leo X issues bull of excommunication against Luther. It is entitled Exsurge Domine ("Arise, Lord, and defend thine own vineyard against the wild beast that is devouring it.") Luther has 60 days to recant.
July 20 Luther finishes writing Appeal to the German Nobility
September Johann Eck posts the bull of excommunication throughout Saxony
October 6 Luther writes The Babylonian Captivity It attacks the denial of the cup to laity, the mass as a sacrifice, and the seven (as opposed to two) sacraments. It sets Luther irrevocably against Rome.
October 10 Luther receives the papal bull (excommunicating him), though he probably knew about it as early as late September. mid-October
At the University of Erfurt, students rip up a copy of the papal bull and throw it into the water. University officials take no action against them.
1521 (age 37) January 3 Luther is excommunicated in the bull Decet Romanun Pontificem
(http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Atlantis/4691/luther1/reform.htm) |
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Salvation |
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OT general
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The Catholics believe ...
The Council of Trent describes the process of salvation from sin in the case of an adult with great minuteness (Sess. VI, v-vi).
It begins with the grace of God which touches a sinner's heart, and calls him to repentance. This grace cannot be merited; it proceeds solely from the love and mercy of God. Man may receive or reject this inspiration of God, he may turn to God or remain in sin. Grace does not constrain man's free will.
Thus assisted the sinner is disposed for salvation from sin; he believes in the revelation and promises of God, he fears God's justice, hopes in his mercy, trusts that God will be merciful to him for Christ's sake, begins to love God as the source of all justice, hates and detests his sins.
This disposition is followed by justification itself, which consists not in the mere remission of sins, but in the sanctification and renewal of the inner man by the voluntary reception of God's grace and gifts, whence a man becomes just instead of unjust, a friend instead of a foe and so an heir according to hope of eternal life. This change happens either by reason of a perfect act of charity elicited by a well disposed sinner or by virtue of the Sacrament either of Baptism or of Penance according to the condition of the respective subject laden with sin. The Council further indicates the causes of this change. By the merit of the Most Holy Passion through the Holy Spirit, the charity of God is shed abroad in the hearts of those who are justified.
Against the heretical tenets of various times and sects we must hold
-that the initial grace is truly gratuitous and supernatural;
-that the human will remains free under the influence of this grace;
-that man really cooperates in his personal salvation from sin;
-that by justification man is really made just, and not merely declared or reputed so;
-that justification and sanctification are only two aspects of the same thing, and not ontologically and chronologically distinct realities;
-that justification excludes all mortal sin from the soul, so that the just man is no way liable to the sentence of death at God's judgment-seat.
Other points involved in the foregoing process of personal salvation from sin are matters of discussion among Catholic theologians; such are, for instance,
-the precise nature of initial grace,
-the manner in which grace and free will work together,
-the precise nature of the fear and the love disposing the sinner for justification,
-the manner in which sacraments cause sanctifying grace.
But these questions are treated in other articles dealing ex professo with the respective subjects. The same is true of final perseverance without which
personal salvation from sin is not permanently secured.
What has been said applies to the salvation of adults; children and those permanently deprived of their use of reason are saved by the Sacrament of Baptism.
Source: http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/13407a.htm
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Church of Christ history? |
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Bible general Archive 1
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Hello ren333!
Are you referring to the Church of Christ: Scientist, Churches of Christ (in general), or the Church of Christ (Holiness) U.S.A.? It is easy to get all the denominations mixed up..
I will assume that you are asking for a history on the Church of Christ (Holiness) U.S.A..
The Church of Christ was founded in 1894 and has attained a membership of 10,383 people in 167 churches (1998 records).
"A Baptist preacher in Alabama and Mississippi, C. P. Jones, seeking a new church and faith that would make him "one of wisdom's true sons . . . like Abraham, a friend of God," founded this church. The body retained its Holiness emphasis when other early black churches moved into Pentecostalism. The Church of Christ (Holiness) seeks to spread the gospel around the world, to reclaim those who have fallen away from the faith, to encourage believers to experience sanctification, and to support divine healing. The church has a strong eschatological focus as well.
Doctrinally, the church emphasizes original sin, the Holy Spirit as an indispensable gift to every believer, and Christ's atonement and Second Coming. There are two sacraments: baptism and the Lord's Supper. Foot washing and divine healing are employed as aids to the growth of spiritual life. The church has bishops who speak for the church, but its government is representative, with final authority vested in a biennial convention made up of elders, clergy, and local lay leaders. There are seven dioceses, each under a bishop's charge.
Missionary work is conducted in the U.S. and in Liberia and Nigeria. The church supports the Christ Missionary and Industrial College at Jackson, Mississippi, and a national publishing house in Chicago, Illinois."
Taken from page 165 of "Handbook of Denominations In the United States" 11th Edition by Frank S. Mead, Samuel S. Hill, Revised by Craig D. Atwood
--Nolan |
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Unbaptized children |
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Bible general Archive 1
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Grace can never be obtained through sacraments. The Prayer Book says "sure and certain means by which we receive that grace". This is contrary to the Word Of God which says....
Acts 2:21
21 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.
(KJV)
Acts 16:30-31
30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.
(KJV)
Rom 10:13
13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
(KJV)
Titus 3:5
5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
(KJV)
Sacraments or the Bible? The Catechism of the Catholic Church or the Bible? Doctrine of man or Word Of God? Which will it be? Since God cannot lie, I'll choose his Word any day.
Saved or still seeking salvation? Which is it ? You can know........
I Jn 5:13
13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.
(KJV)
Sin of Presumption or Word Of God? You decide....
Do you know? You can.............
Rom 10:13
13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
(KJV)
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Are we really "1 nation under God? |
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Bible general Archive 1
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Part 2 of I don't know how many
Historian Barry Schwartz writes: "George Washington's practice of Christianity was limited and superficial because he was not himself a Christian... He repeatedly declined the church's sacraments. Never did he take communion, and when his wife, Martha, did, he waited for her outside the sanctuary... Even on his deathbed, Washington asked for no ritual, uttered no prayer to Christ, and expressed no wish to be attended by His representative." [New York Press, 1987, pp. 174-175]
After Washington's death, Dr. Abercrombie, a friend of his, replied to a Dr. Wilson, who had interrogated him about Washington's religion replied, "Sir, Washington was a Deist."
These ones are attributed to Thomas Paine, consider reading a book he wrote called, "The Age of Reason"
"The New Testament, they tell us, is founded upon the prophecies of
the Old; if so, it must follow the fate of its foundation.''
"Whenever we read the obscene stories, the voluptuous debaucheries, the cruel and torturous executions, the unrelenting vindictiveness, with which more than half of the Bible is filled, it would be more consistent that we call it the word of a demon than the word of God. It is a history of wickedness that has served to corrupt and brutalize mankind
"What is it the New Testament teaches us? To believe that the Almighty commited debauchery with a woman engaged to be married; and the belief of this debauchery is called faith."
"Take away from Genesis the belief that Moses was the author, on which only the strange belief that it is the word of God has stood, and there remains nothing of Genesis but an anonymous book of stories, fables, and traditionary or invented absurdities, or of downright lies."
"The story of Jesus Christ appearing after he was dead is the story of an apparition, such as timid imaginations can always create in vision, and credulity believe. Stories of this kind had been told of the assassination of Julius Caesar."
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When was Saul of Tarsus saved? |
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Heb 9:22
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They don't mention the need for repentance either.
Could Saul of Tarsus or anyone be saved without repentance?
David Pawson MA, BSc in his book 'The Normal Christian Birth' on page 145 makes this statement
about Acts 2:38. "Peter believes that water baptism will 'effect' the cleansing. For him, as for the other apostles, the washing of the body and the cleansing of the conscience were the outside and the inside of the same event, the external act causing the internal change. Their understanding was 'sacramental' rather than 'symbolic'. To put it quite starkly, Peter would have been surprised if someone had asked if they could have forgiveness of sins without being baptised; he would probably have questioned the sincerity of their profession of repentance and faith"
Incidentally, why didn't Peter tell his listeners
in Acts 2 to 'believe on the Lord Jesus Christ' to be saved? When they asked the same question as the Jailor at Philippi, why did they get a different answer?. Also note that they asked what
shall WE DO. If they were already saved why did
Peter tell them to "Repent AND be baptised ... for
the remission of sins"?
Two more points. The scriptures you quote show the need for faith, - amen - we can't be saved without faith. But nowhere does it say that it was by faith 'only'. The only scripture I can
find that mentions faith only is James 2:24. This
tells us that justification is NOT by faith only.
Mark 16:16, Which version will you accept?
Jesus: He that believeth and is baptised shall be
saved.
DLD: He that believeth shall be saved and is
baptised.
I will accept the word of Jesus who places
salvation after belief and baptism |
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Huge Impact? |
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Romans
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Charis:
Well, I do think that the pursuit of formal theological training is of great benefit to the believer (even though I have not had the pleasure of such seminary enrollment myself yet). However, I do not think that it should be something for the "elite," which is an idea too commonly held by the clergy and the laity.
I am blessed to attend a church that is very concerned with making the congregation "theologically-literate." We currently have a free, weekly class in systematic theology going on taught by one of our elders, for example. Another mid-week course is going on which deals with the teachings of Islam, providing a Biblical response and tips for communicating the Christian faith to Muslims. In my not-humble-enough opinion, it is a core responsibility of the elders/deacons of a church to make sure that the congregation is well-educated in the faith, which means going beyond the practical "how can I have a more meaningful quiet time" types of sermons to giving them the "meat" of the Word (Hebrews 5:12). Of course, at times this may be rebuking, correcting, and convicting to its hearers. In my opinion, however, no one can ever have too much good theological training, along with an understanding is that the whole Christian life and practice is rooted in one's understanding of God and the Bible (i.e. theology is utterly PRACTICAL).
I also am a big fan of confessional churches. No, confessions and creeds do not carry the same divine inspiration that Scripture does, and one may in fact disagree with points within those confessions (my denomination even allows for clergy to be ordained and minister while disagreeing with minor points of doctrine in the Westminster Confession of Faith).
Here are what I see as the benefits of a well-thought out and comprehensive confession (whether it be Calvinist or Arminian in scope):
1. It usually involves a group effort of people who have dedicated their lives to studying and expounding the truth of God's Word.
2. It goes beyond addressing the basic issues of salvation, as it touches on on the church's understanding of worship, the sacraments, the Bible, prayer, the role of the believer in the whole scheme of things. One has no doubt in coming to a confessional congregation what that congregation holds to be truth.
3. These confessions are supported by a myriad of references to the only standard of faith and practice: the Bible. Contrary to popular belief, a confession does not take the place of the Bible, but rather stands as an explanation of Scripture's basic themes. This is extremely useful, for certain themes (such as the doctrine of the Trinity or the end-times) are not found in one passage of the Bible, but are addressed throughout Scripture. Thus, a confession serves not as a Bible in itself, but a compendium of Christian doctrine based on the Bible.
4. The early Christian church demonstrates the use of creeds and confessions, going back as far as the apostolic era (Hebrews 4:14, 10:23; 1 Corinthians 15; 2 Timothy 2:11-13; Philippians 2:6-11).
But the most compelling reason as far as I am concerned is the following:
5. It does an excellent job of preventing false doctrine from entering the church. What I find in many non-confessional churches (and I have belonged to several in my life) are congregations not thoroughly informed on the Christian faith, and more susceptible to being "carried about by every wind of doctrine" (Ephesians 4:14) that comes down the pike.
You may not see that as clearly from your Japanese vantage point, but one just needs to go down to the local Christian bookstore in the United States to find the results of such shallow teaching on the best-seller shelves. From "Bible Codes" to the latest eschatological interpretation of what happened on the news yesterday to ten thousand versions and spinoffs of a prayer manual based on an obscure couple of verses in 1 Chronicles, we see the results of Christians not knowing what they believe and grabbing whatever fluff a publisher is willing to spew out. I even saw a book the other day which is supposed to serve as a Bible study using the teachings of the Andy Griffith show as a jumping-off point for discussion!
Well-written creeds and confessions and catechisms point to the truths of the Bible and serve as educational tools which prevent this kind of nonsense. Note that I am not saying that non-confessional churches are apostate or not as dedicated to God. I do think that confessional churches have an advantage when heresy or silly ideas visit the front door, and they do serve as useful instruments for educating believers in the essentials of the Christian faith.
Hope that clears up my view! Can't wait for the invective response that is sure to follow from someone on this forum... :)
--Joe! |
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