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rapture question |
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Matt 24:27
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"Avoid spiritualizing or allegorizing the Bible. This is that which gives to the Bible some kind of mystical meaning. In other words, what is on the surface is not the meaning, but what is hidden becomes the meaning. This is very popular. Allegorizing means to say that the historical meaning is not the real meaning, and in fact may be nothing but a fabrication. The historical meaning is not the real meaning, the real meaning is the spiritual meaning hidden beneath the surface.
. . . And once you say that something in the Bible is an allegory, that is it is only a symbol of the reality, you have just made it impossible to know what that reality is because if that reality cannot be discerned through the normal understanding of language, how can it be discerned?"
. . . (from the radio message: "How to Study Your Bible: Interpretation" by John MacArthur on Grace to You broadcast)
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Any consequences for the bad? |
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2 Cor 5:10
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Radio man said it better than I could have, and I concur totally. Christ forever judged sin at the cross, and the only judgement on that issue that will take place is reserved for those who reject the message of the gospel. The Judgement Seat is all about the activities that believers have taken part in since there conversion. I have littel doubt that it will be a sad, certainly embarassing time as the Lord shows us all the worthless things that we did, and it will result in the loss of reward. The knowledge of it should help to "stimulate us to love and good deeds", don't you agree? Its definatly noe a concequence issue, except for the loss od rewards. Thanks slillis20 Emmaus Bible College |
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NOAH"S CURSED SON |
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Genesis
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Amen, Radioman. Biblical and logical. |
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Why won't Calvinists answer directly??? |
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Job 38:1
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PART TWO.
Why won't Calvinists answer directly? 1) Who is a Calvinist? If I don't call myself a Calvinist, who are you to put that label on me? 2)Answer what directly? Sometimes the questions are so off topic, so hypothetical and broad, that they cannot be answered.
. . . 3) Do you respond directly? You all never respond directly to the Scriptures used to defend election. I've rarely, if ever, seen an anti-electionist directly answer a scripture or an argument used to prove election. You usually answer a question with more questions or with sophistry that only confuses the issue. I've read more rambling remarks, irrelevant Scripture, hypothetical questions, "why" questions full of suppositions and way off topic, angry comebacks and just plain nonsense in the anti-Calvinism answers and questions. How is anybody supposed to answer such wide-ranging, hypothetical questions?
. . . I would also note that the underlying resistance of the anti-election people is due to their idea that God just wouldn't be fair if election were true. And so they ask WHY questions that are worded to get the other person to agree with them. If election isn't true or doesn't exist, why does the Bible make 250 references to the subject?
. . . Again people keep raising objections to what they call Calvinism while not bothering to even try to read and understand a definition and explanation of the doctrine. It's as if I had driven a Honda Accord for 20 years. Then you come along. You've never even seen a Honda Accord, but you've already decided you don't like Accords and don't want one. In that situation do you think you could convince me the car is no good? Having never seen one, you wouldn't have the slightest personal knowledge on which to build an argument. At best, you would be limited to quoting the writings of others, parroting their ideas while having none of your own.
. . . Again, if I ever saw a well-thought-out, Scripture related question re election, I would make a sincere attempt to answer it.
. . . In conclusion, thiese remarks may have sounded harsh and critical. Such was not my intention. I have love and respect for you and all who are my brothers and sisters in Christ. I respect your right to your own attitudes, opinions and beliefs.
It's just that I cannot sit by silently and read all the criticism, mockery and misunderstanding of the Bible doctrine of election. As Dylan said, "Don't criticize what you don't understand."
If you've read this entire answer, then I thank you for your time and patience. Let's keep searching and learning for greater wisdom and understanding, shall we? After 30 years of serious Bible study, I feel as though I've only begun to scratch the surface in knowing and understanding Scripture. My thanks to you and the other users for stimulating me to continue to search, study and pay attention to the details of the Bible. Always look forward to reading your questions or comments. In Christ, Radioman |
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Questions for my Calvinists friends. |
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Job 38:1
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. . . P.S.
. . . Regarding your submission, "Problems with Election Theory," I sincerely thank you for the background info. Now I see that for you Calvinism is neither a mere intellectual issue nor a matter for debate for the sake of debate. Rather it is a practical issue. However, I remind you that to my knowledge, I have never once in any of my answers used the word "Calvinism". For the record, I'm neither a Calvinist nor an Arminian. I suppose I'm somewhere in between strict Calvinism and strict Arminianism. I'm not saying either group is absolutely right and the other absolutely wrong. I never even used either of those terms (Calvinism or Arminianism, except perhaps to distinguish between the two or to reply to your comments and questions regarding Calvinsim, but not to defend strict, absolute, undiluted Calvinism).
. . . In the same submission, I agree with you: you have to research it and determine for yourself whether you believe election is true and what your understanding of election is.
. . . I also agree with your statement that ANYONE who ... believes in God's Son and turns to him for salvation SHALL BE SAVED. This is consistent with every statement in the Bible regarding salvation. Whosoever will may come. However, Scripture also plainly teaches that we neither chose nor sought out Christ; instead he did the choosing and the seeking of us (John 15:19). He came to seek and to save that which was lost. For an unregenrate man to say that he is seeking Christ is like the mice saying they are seeking the cat. If they are seeking his location, it is only for the purose of avoiding the cat.
. . . I fear that to give detailed answers to your question "Problems with Election Theory" would take hours. Also that to answer in detail might stir up more emotion and hostility, which certainly is not my intention. I sincerely wish to give you helpful answers. Even if you don't agree with the answers (which is your right and privilege), my intention is to be helpful. Whether I have been helpful remains to be seen. My prayer for you is that the Lord will show you in His Word that which you are seeking to know and understand. Whatever your decision, I pray that it will be the right one for you.
. . . Take care. Thank you for your interest and input. Disclaimer: I am not infallible. Calvin (there -- I used the word) is not infallible. No study Bible footnotes are infallible. Only the Scriptures are WITHOUT error and INCAPABLE of error and ONLY in the original manuscripts .
. . . I apologize for not thoroughly proofreading this answer. If I tried to proof it, I'm afraid I would spend another hour thinking of one more thing after another that I would want to add. Because of Dry Eye Syndrome, if I don't stop reading and typing now, I will go temporarily blind. It will have to stand as is, typos and all.
. . . I thank you for your time and patience. Take care. In Christ, Radioman |
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When is a plumb line true? |
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Bible general Archive 1
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How can a man be plumb lyin' and true at the same time? (It's a joke.) Seriously, yours is an excellent answer. Keep them coming. I commend you on your answer, with which I agree. Thanks for attempting to restore some balance and Christian charity to this endless debate. In Christ, Radioman |
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Any consequences for the bad? |
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2 Cor 5:10
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Dear Radioman, Amen! see my comments to slillis20 below. In Christ Jesus. |
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Arminian viewpoint? |
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Bible general Archive 1
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Dear Radioman:
I appreciate the opportunity to provide humor in the otherwise droll life of Calvinism, however, I am a serious Bible student, and would prefer to limit my intellectual intercourse to others of the same intent. Thank you for avoiding my questions in the future. Joseph |
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What would be considered the age? |
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Bible general Archive 1
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P.S. The same logic would cause one to conclude that since the word "Trinity" does not appear in the Bible, then there is no such thing as the Trinity. The same thing could be said of television, radio, the Internet, etc.: well, since those words don't appear in the Bible, then those things don't exist. Whatever. |
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Arminian viewpoint? |
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Bible general Archive 1
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To jvh0212: Thank you for the apology, but my communication was to Radioman(unless you are he) I am still waiting and hoping for a scriptural answer to the original question to which you replied, "Are there any Arminians among us? Yes. Are any of them able to shed light on this subject? Good question. We shall see."
Surely, since the vast majority of Christianity believes in an age of accountability, there is some Scriptural support. Somebody besides Radioman please answer. |
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Who has the opportunity to be saved? |
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Job 38:1
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Thanks for your reply. It is I who owe you an apology: I'm afraid I have been somewhat passionate and have made unkind remarks to you. See, that's why I couldn't be on the radio to field Bible questions. That and the fact that I don't know all the answers -- not by a long shot. I get too emotional, too passionate, whatever you want to call it.
. . . Probably what I should do with my replies is to write them and then sleep on them. Re-read them the next day and decide whether they are appropriate before I send them.
. . . I really like this new attitude of mutual respect and kindness, even though we don't agree on every last little thing.
. . . I too think we may be closer in our beliefs than we realize. Perhaps some of the differences are because I'm not thorough enough in my questions or comments. Or perhaps I don't choose the right words to convey what I mean. I sincerely mean this. Thanks again for your reply. |
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What is the point? |
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1 Thessalonians
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Good morning, EveryHome. You are very observant. I DO live in a world you do not live in. As to my sleeping habits, they are just fine ;-) Sorry, my friend, I couldn't help leading you on for a moment...I live in Japan. You see, I am very much aware of Satan's ability to 'sway' Christians from the path. I just don't agree that he can 'snatch' us away from God. If you would use Search for 'Snatch' or 'Salvation' you will find a great discussion on that. Thank you very much for your compliment. In faith, I cannot consider any word more favorable than 'centrist.' I frequently use the capital 'X' thing because I find that many Christians who favor any particular 'proper' adjective describing their faith are not 'something more than Christ,' but something less than Christ.' I am sorry, too, that I left off the first part of 2 Timothy 2:12. It, and the context, are among my favorites. I understand persecution and very much, and I believe that it is in persecution that the church really shines. Remember my situation, less than 1 percent 'professing' Christians, and probably one-tenth that Bible-believing and church-attending. There are no Christian television shows or radio stations (maybe a blessing!) and few of the reference materials you enjoy are translated. Yet, the church shines. I believe the church will shine on that day, or in those days, if you prefer, and Satan will be found to be not as strong as some think. Well, I must go to church. I am blessed to hear your views. Love in Christ Jesus. |
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Does Bible support capital punishment? |
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Bible general Archive 1
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In answer to your question, I can say that it certainly doesn't oppose capital punishment. Take these verses for example:
Genesis 9:6 "Whoever sheds man's blood, By man his blood shall be shed, For in the image of God He made man."
Exodus 21:12 "He who strikes a man so that he dies shall surely be put to death."
NUM 35:16-19 "But if he struck him down with an iron object, so that he died, he is a murderer; the murderer shall surely be put to death. And if he struck him down with a stone in the hand, by which he may die, and as a result he died, he is a murderer; the murderer shall surely be put to death. Or if he struck him with a wooden object in the hand, by which he may die, and as a result he died, he is a murderer; the murderer shall surely be put to death. The blood avenger himself shall put the murderer to death; he shall put him to death when he meets him.
NUM 35:21 "or if he struck him down with his hand in enmity, and as a result he died, the one who struck him shall surely be put to death, he is a murderer; the blood avenger shall put the murderer to death when he meets him.
That's not to say that we each have the right to vigilante killings. No. God clearly points out that authorities are brought to power for the purpose of administering justice. (For example, Romans 13:1-4) This includes capital punishment, which requires evidence, not revenge.
NUM 35:30-31 "If anyone kills a person, the murderer shall be put to death at the evidence of witnesses, but no person shall be put to death on the testimony of one witness. Moreover, you shall not take ransom for the life of a murderer who is guilty of death, but he shall surely be put to death."
I know this is a bit long, but one final comment to share: There's very good commentary on this topic by Greg Koukl (A Christian Apologist and Radio Talk Show Host in CA) at the following 2 URLs:
http://www.str.org/free/commentaries/social_issues/reasonsf.htm
and at
http://www.str.org/free/commentaries/social_issues/cap_pun.htm
God Bless you... In Christ Jesus.
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I didn't see any response to bcb... |
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Mark 15:34
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Dear Radioman, JVH, bcb, any and all who have been thinking of this verse. I was the one that said it was too bad that bcb didn't get an "Amen" even after five days of his excellent thoughts. I was following the tree and noticed that he had gotten no response.
Bcb...I like to paraphrase this verse with its six or twelve pronouns, "God/Man, why have You forsaken (Me)." I think the righteousness of Jesus as God had to forsake the humanity of (Jesus). Perhaps you can think of it as a prayer or as him talking to Himself. Please excuse the parenthesis and the capitalization, whoever.
I'm sorry if I appeared to slight anyone's thoughts. Ray V.H. |
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ELOI, ELOI, LAMA SABACHTHANI? |
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Mark 15:34
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Radioman, I'm sorry if you didn't think I responded directly either, but you really have no objection.:.) But if you realize that I was responding to bcb and not the discussion question I would be glad.
I really wasn't following that tree and when I saw JVH's entry I thought that it was a new introduction. Actually I had just written to JVH and my system lost it all at the end, so I figured I must have said something not quite right, and looking for someone else to write, found bcb. I think too, that JVH has had some good thoughts. Ask him what he has against capitalization, though. |
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Malachi-John 17 brain teaser |
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Malachi
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Dear Radioman, I don't know. Did you capitalize Son of Perdition? Ray |
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If elect is not choose, then what is it? |
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Job 38:1
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I will read the responses that Radioman referenced from you on election, thank you for that. Radioman's response on 3/11 at 12:07 when he referred to Isa 55 is critical to my understanding, or the acceptance of my lack of understanding. It seems to me that it is both,(election and freewill) but I don't understand how it can be. But then I understand that we are predestined according to the foreknowledge of God [1 Peter 1:2](and foreknowledge is one of those untested Accords to me). Are we chosen in Him before the foundation of the world, by all means, but did I have to make a choice, of course. Is God unjust? No way, our whole understanding of justice is based upon who He is. I believe in election, and I work hard at convincing my friends and co-workers that they must choose to accept Him. Peter says that the prophets of old looked diligently and couldn't figure out the sufferings of Christ and the glory that should follow. I wonder if they debated, with each other one group saying he would "only" suffer and one group saying he would only receive glory. The more I know the more I know that I don't know, but it is ok because my Big Brother knows it all. |
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Sabbath laws....do? or don't? |
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Col 2:16
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I did not mean to mislead anyone. I am sorry for the fact that I inadvertently failed to say that my answer, to which you refer, was not authored by me, but is a quote written by John MacArthur, host of the Grace To You radio broadcast.
. . . Another excellent quote on the subject comes from the note at Matt 12:1 in the New Scofield Reference Bible, Oxford, 1967, part of which I present here. (The entire summary footnote on the subject of the Sabbath is well worth reading.) I quote:
. . . The Sabbath "was observed by complete rest (Ex 35:2-3)...Apart from maintaining the continued burnt offering and its connection with the annual feasts, the seventh-day Sabbath was never made a day of sacrifice, worship, or any manner of religious service. It was simply and only a day of complete rest for man and beast, a humane provision for man's needs." Bear in mind, Scofied is not referring to any tradition of man, but only to what the Bible actually SAYS about God's institution of the seventh-day Sabbath in the Mosaic Law. |
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Why not recommend SBForum to others? |
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Bible general Archive 1
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I thank you for your reply. And I do understand your point. If only we were all Bible scholars who used logic and knew how to research the questions so as to give Scriptural answers, instead of just blurting out whatever comes to mind when we read a question.
. . . In your reply you say: "if a subject is such that a mutually agreeable conclusion can not be reached then there should be a summation of the various points. There is a real danger of people being lead astray by opinion, conjecture and mis-information. God did not give us his word to speculate over he gave it us to live by."
. . . But, the same could be said of certain pastors, teachers, preachers, televangelists, etc. There is a REAL danger of people being led into error when they are exposed to every wind of doctrine blown across the airwaves by various and sundry TV preachers. Many of them teach sound Bible doctrine. But not all. Many of them teach serious error. And many of the teachers of error have a regular TV empire built upon the vulnerability and enthusiasm of their sometimes large number of followers and fans.
. . . I agree -- there is a real danger of people being fed mis-information and being led astray. However, in a democracry any forum in which there is a free exchange of ideas is vulnerable to a wide range of answers: the good, the bad, the ugly, the sublime, and the absurd.
. . . I don't disagree with your concerns for what might and does happen at this website. Yet, is this website not a mirror of the [Christian] culture in which we live? That is, would you not run the risk of mis-information being presented, whether the format was an online forum, a radio call-in show, a home Bible class, or an impromptu discussion among friends? Basically, I don't think it's the format for discussion that is at fault. Regardless of where and how discussion takes place, wouldn't all the speculation, all the various ideas, opinions and conjectures, stem from imperfect human nature and not from any particular format or structure or lack of same?
. . .Someone or some committee charged with the job of moderating what is posted here might not be a bad idea. But then you'll get complaints that the moderators are biased or that they don't know what they're talking about. You can hear this on Christian call-in radio programs every day.
. . . I say again, I do know what you're talking about. At times some of the answers are so outrageous and uninformed, that frustration ensues. If one is so turned off by some of the foolishness he reads at this website, then let him delete the link from his Favorites folder. But if anyone truly enjoys participating in the site, with all the user shortcomings, then let him spread the word.
. . . Again thank you for your reply. I suspect that you have expressed concerns that many of us have regarding the use and misuse of this forum.
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For Hank and everybody else!! |
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John 11:25
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Thanks, Chris, for a very interesting profile on yourself. Re: Charles Stanley, I agree with you 110 percent. He's THE BEST in my book. I'm unfamiliar with Bible Broadcasting Network. Are you familiar with the Bott Radio Network? It's my favorite. My annoying habits? Either none or too numerous to mention, depending on whom you ask. Please feel free to write me anytime, if you would wish to do so. I would be pleased to hear from you. My address is at my user profile. --JVH0212 |
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God can use woman in the ministry? |
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Gal 3:28
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God can and does use women in ministry...has anyone thought of the calling all of us have to be evangelists? Think of the Angeles Temple in Los Angeles, CA....Aimee Semple McPherson started the foursquare church and the first christian radio station... |
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Does Scripture mean what it says? |
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Gal 3:28
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Aimee Semple MacPherson started the foursquare church and the first christian radio station... |
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For or against? |
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Gal 3:28
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Cyberbob writes: "Aimee Semple MacPherson started the foursquare church and the first christian radio station..." It's unclear: is this statement an argument for or against women starting churches? |
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How old is the earth scripturally? |
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Gen 1:1
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The Bible gives specific years of lifespans and timeframes of events (such as the time of slavery in Egypt) to determine the time from Adam to Solomon. There is enough agreement as to the date of the reign of Solomon that it can be added to the previous years to give us a total age of the Earth. This is approximately 6177 years according to my study. There is no exact date known because of several difficulties but the Bible is far from silent on the issue.
An excellent book on the subject written by Harold Camping has a unique insight into how to date the Earth and offers an even older age of the Earth of over 13,000 years. The book is called "Adam When" and can be ordered from www.familyradio.com without charge. The book does not contradict my calculations, it simply offers insight that I did not have. I would highly recommend that you order it to see if his understanding is correct in your eyes.
If anyone would like a copy of my detailed charts from Adam to Solomon so they may see for themselves, simply e-mail me at peacock@grapevine.net and I will mail them to you.
In the Creator's Name, Phil
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Women starting churches....???? |
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1 Tim 2:12
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PART 1. RevC: You asked: "What is the thought of Joyce Meyer and her ministry?" Answer (short): Because of Joyce Meyer’s adherence to a major tenet of Word of Faith theology and her subjective and unbiblical teachings concerning spiritual warfare, I cannot recommend her ministry.
Answer (full): The following is a quotation from previously published material (note: numbers inside parentheses are footnote numbers):
Joyce Meyer
Joyce Meyer is a popular Pentecostal preacher living outside of St. Louis, MO, who has been in fulltime ministry since 1980.(1) She is a best-selling author in the Christian market,(2) and her books cover everything from America’s Christian heritage to weight-loss.(3) But she is perhaps best known from her radio and television program, Life in the Word, both of which are broadcast nationally and internationally.(4)
Meyer shares the platform from time to time with Word of Faith teachers like, for example, Kenneth Copeland, Jesse Duplantis, Benny Hinn, and T.D. Jakes.(5) CRI is critical of and concerned with some of her practices and teachings.
In her 1991 booklet, The Most Important Decision You Will Ever Make, she teaches a hallmark doctrine of Faith theology, namely, that Christ had to suffer in hell to atone for our sins and be born again:
During that time He entered hell, where you and I deserved to go (legally) because of our sin….He paid the price there.…no plan was too extreme…Jesus paid on the cross and in hell….God rose up from His throne and said to demon powers tormenting the sinless Son of God, “Let Him go.” Then the resurrection power of Almighty God went through hell and filled Jesus….He was resurrected from the dead -- the first born-again man.(6)
Her assertions are not unlike those of leading Word of Faith proponent Kenneth Copeland, who also believes Christ’s death on the cross was not sufficient to atone for our sins, and that His work of redemption was completed by suffering in hell and being born again. According to Copeland,
When Jesus cried, “It is finished!” He was not speaking of the plan of redemption. There were still three days and nights to go through before He went to the throne….Jesus’ death on the cross was only the beginning of the complete work of redemption.(7)
[The] word of the living God went down into the pit of destruction and charged the spirit of Jesus with resurrection power! Suddenly His twisted, death-wracked spirit began to fill out and come back to life. He began to look like something the devil had never seen before. He was literally being reborn before the devil’s very eyes. He began to flex His spiritual muscles….Jesus was born again -- the first-born from the dead.(8)
According to a recently published interview with free-lance writer Ken Walker, however, Meyer contradictorily denies ever believing or teaching that Christ was born again in hell.(9)
Moreover, in her 1991 booklet, Meyer asserts that salvation is impossible without believing Jesus suffered in hell as the believer’s substitute. Meyer writes, “There is no hope of anyone going to heaven unless they believe this truth I am presenting. You cannot go to heaven unless you believe with all your heart that Jesus took your place in hell.”(10)
While historic Christianity has debated the issue of whether or not Jesus actually descended into hell (e.g., to proclaim the gospel, declare victory, etc. [1 Peter 3:18-19), no orthodox believer ever held to the belief that Christ suffered and atoned for our sins in hell, rather than on the cross. Yet, Word of
Faith teachers, including Joyce Meyer, teach the necessity of Jesus having to pay for our sins in hell, under the torment of Satan and his angels -- a teaching both unsubstantiated by and contrary to Scripture. The entirety of Christ’s atoning work (i.e., His suffering and death in our place) occurred on the cross (e.g., 1 Peter 2:24), ending with His proclamation, “It is finished” (John 19:30). The Christ of Faith theology literally had to become sin, taking on the nature of Satan while in hell, thereby needing to be born again in hell before His resurrection could occur. (continued in next posting)
---------------------------------
To read Footnotes, please go to http://www.equip.org/search/
CRI
Rancho Santa Margarita, CA 92688
To read the entire, uncut article quoted above, please go to: http://www.equip.org/search/ and in the search field enter the words Joyce Meyer.
(continued in next posting)
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How can Jesus be tempted if He is God? |
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Heb 4:15
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Radioman:
It is generally considered to be poor nettiquette to cross-post all over the place. In addition, this forum is for discussion, so debate on important theological issues is why we ARE here. Thirdly, people's opinions DO change (mine did, as a matter of fact), and Christians certainly should in love vigorously debate the Scriptures in order to come to a better understanding of God's nature and activity.
Thanks, and I hope you are not a 2 Prov 1:7 kind of guy! :)
--Joe! |
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Will you join me? |
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Acts 2:33
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I want to invite anyone who is interested in sharing the "truth" in the word of God and not depating it. It is clear that some are trying to acheive the likeness of Jesus. But, unfortunately others are more interested in arguing the word of God. I want to open another can of worms. However, i don't intend to turn this into an argument. I heard on the radio an evangalist speaking on prophecy. He said that we are not to prophecy in Jesus Name. Please help me concerning this matter. He also made a comment that we are not supposed to speak in tongues. I got a differnt understanding. |
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How do you know? |
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Josh 10:12
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Radioman, how do we know WHAT? Restate your question and maybe I or someone else will see fit to give you an answer. |
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Why do you believe the earth revolves? |
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Josh 10:12
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My recommendation regarding answering Lionstrong:
KVJ Pr 26:4 Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him.
Pr 26:5 Answer a fool according to his folly, lest he be wise in his own conceit.
TEV Proverbs 26:4-5
If you answer a silly question, you are just as silly as the person who asked it.
Give a silly answer to a silly question, and the one who asked it will realize that he's not as smart as he thinks.
God's Word Version 26:4-5
Do not answer a fool with his own stupidity, or you will be like him.
Answer a fool with his own stupidity, or he will think he is wise.
Radioman |
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