Do you believe once save, always saved.				Luke 23:43
	No. If that were true, why would we be warned against temptations?
	Do you believe once save, always saved.				Luke 23:43
	That is the teaching of men (Calvin, Augustine). Certain verses seem to uphold that view while others seem to disagree. The goal is to harmonize them all to get the big picture! Some change it to "once saved, almost always saved"
	Do you believe once save, always saved.				Luke 23:43
	Other than apostasy, the answer is yes. And if you're truly saved how could you get into apostasy? The answer is that you shouldn't be able to.
	Do you believe once save, always saved.				Luke 23:43
	ONCE LOST, ALWAYS LOST. . . . "Once saved, always saved." This statement is not in the Bible. Nor is it a phrase used by Baptist preachers. The only people who use this phrase are the ones who reject the Bible doctrine of Eternal Security, the opposite of which would be Eternal Insecurity. . . .While "once saved, always saved" is hotly debated, one thing is for certain: Once lost, salvation is always lost. " . . . logically Heb. 6:4 implies that if salvation were to be lost, it would be impossible for that person to be born again, lose it, and then be born again again. This much is clear: whoever openly and consciously rejects Jesus Christ is unregenerate even if he seemed to have been saved ealier." Whether he had lost his salvation or never had it to begin with, "either way, the result is identical." (note at Heb. 6:4ff, NRSV Harper Study Bible)
	Denying the Master				2 Peter
	This brief reply will not answer every part of your question. But I just wanted to thank you very much for using the term "Biblical doctrine of election." It's the same term I use. However, whenever I address the Biblical doctrine of election, people reply using the word Calvinism, although my definition and defense of election never uses the term Calvinism. . . . It is as if those who don't believe in Calvinism also don't believe in ANY doctrine of election. They deny that election is a Bible doctrine. They deny the existence of the elect. . . . This, in spite of the fact that in the NIV, for example, the words elect, election, choose, chosen and chose appear 250 times. While not always referring to election for salvation, the majority of the occurences of the words choose or chosen are speaking of God's choosing, not man's. On the other hand the word "freewill" is used 22 times in the entire Bible and always in connection with the word "offering(s)". . . . This mentality actually surprises me. I always thought that while not every Christian defines election in the same way, at least every Christian does believe in election, define it as you will. Guess I was wrong. . . . If you read the attacks on election at this website, you may be dismayed at the closed-mindedness of the opponents of election. It seems that, in general, those who attack election have no clear understanding of what it is or what it means. But that doesn't stop them from having very strong emotional reactions when you use the word "election." . . . Surprisingly, I've seen little or no debate over Eternal Security vs. Eternal Insecurity. Once that gets started you will have more people talking without listening. . . . I was brought up to believe in the idea that a believer can fall from grace and lose his salvation. When I was 20 years old, the first time anyone told me about Eternal Security, it seemed so Scriptural AND logical, that I had no trouble accepting it. But, I must say it has taken decades to get rid of all the old thinking that you have to do something to get, keep, or add to your salvation. Now I know that Romans 3:28 and Ephesians 2:8,9 are the final word on the subject. Both of them are saying in plain English that we are saved by grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone. Or, put another way, we are saved by grace through faith plus nothing. Thank you so much for your input. I hope to read more Q. and A. that you submit.
	COULD A BELIEVER LOSE THEIR SALVATION?				Hebrews
	ONCE LOST, ALWAYS LOST. If you can't see to agree on the following, then you're either ignoring Heb. 6:4 entirely or you simply don't understand English. Save the standard allegation that we're taking it out of context -- an allegation that's made every time someone cites a clear verse of Scripture without adding "what if" questions or questions that begin with "Well, if that's true, then . . ." Save all that stuff for the blind and their blind guides. . . . Once salvation is lost, it's always lost Note Heb 6:4 JVH0212 Tue 02/27/01, 2:24pm " . . . logically v. 4 implies that if salvation were to be lost, it would be impossible for that person to be born again, lose it, and then be born again again. This much is clear: whoever openly and consciously rejects Jesus Christ is unregenerate even if he seemed to have been saved ealier." Whether he had lost his salvation or never had it to begin with, "either way, the result is identical." (note at Heb. 6:4ff, NRSV Harper Study Bible)
	Do you believe once save, always saved.				Luke 23:43
	(I would like to submit Part Two.) . . . "Calvinism teaches (1) the total depravity of man, (2) God's unconditional election (or predestination) of certain ones to saved and certain others to be lost, (3) that Christ died only for the elect, not for every person, (4) that God's saving grace toward the elect cannot be resisted, and (5) that once a person is saved, he can never lose his salvation. . . . "Arminianism teaches something different on each of these points: (1) Though born a sinner, mankind is given a spark of divine grace that enables him to respond positively to God. (2) God does not arbitrarily consign some people to eternal damnation; their willful rejection of God's salvation makes them responsible. (3) Christ died for every person, even though some refuse to accept the provision for their salvation. (4) No person is forced against his or her will to become a Christian (5) One's salvation can be lost through willful disobedience. . . . "Rather than the unconditional predestination of Calvinism, Arminianism teaches conditional predestination. We are predestined to eternal life if we accept God's provision of salvation. . . . "The __________ __ ___ leans toward Arminianism, though it accepts scriptural truth found in both positions. We agree with the Calvinist emphasis on God's sovereignty or supreme power and authority. But we also firmly believe the Arminian emphasis on mankind's free will and responsibility for his actions and choices. We believe the Bible teaches both truths.." So there it is: Calvinism, Arminianism, a little of each, or neither. Take your pick.
	Do you believe once save, always saved.				Luke 23:43
	I would like to submit Part One . . . I would like to submit for your consideration the following quotation re: the never ending debate over once saved, always saved (which, I remind you, is a term used ONLY by the opponents of Eternal Security). I offer this quotation without any comment of my own. Note that I am not claiming to agree or disagree with this position. I merely point it out. . . . The following is a quotation from a denominational publication stating the position of the denomination on this issue. If you are not happy with what you read, don't complain to me. I didn't write it. I never said this is so or not so. OK? . . . "In view of the biblical teaching that the security of the believer depends on a living relationship with Christ (John 15:6); in view of the Bible's call to a life of holiness (1 Peter 1:16; Hebrews 12:14); in view of the clear teaching that a man may have his part taken out of the Book of Life (Revelation 22:19); and in view of the fact that one who believes for a while can fall away (Luke 8:13); The General Council of the __________ __ ___disapproves of the unconditional security position which holds that it is impossible for a person once saved to be lost. . . . "The Christian religious world divides basically into two schools of thought concerning the spiritual destiny of people. One is Calvinism, named after John Calvin (early 16the century); the other is Arminianism, traced back to James Arminius (late 16th century). The theological debate is thus centuries old. (continues in Part Two)
	Do you believe once save, always saved.				Luke 23:43
	Yes And No, hows that for an answer. i will endeavour to explain. yes i do part Ps 138:8 the lord will perfect that which concerns me. Kowing i am saved and that the Lord will perfect that,hence comes "once saved always saved". but on the other side.1john 5:16 the sin unto death.which means that they were saved but sinned unto death. and Ex 32:33 their names can be blotted out that means so can ours, if we dont LET Jesus perfect His work in us .i hope that helps
	GEt back up				Revelation
	I cannot speak for inhzsvc, but I can and will speak for myself. FYI: . . . 1) Why do you put words in the mouth of inhzsvc? He does not use the phrase "once saved, always saved." . . . 2) The only people who ever say "once saved, always saved" are the people who don't believe in it, i.e. those who do believe in Eternal Insecurity. . . . 3) Hebrews 6:4-6 clearly teaches "once salvation is lost, it is always lost." "logically v. 4 implies that if salvation were to be lost, it would be impossible for that person to be born again, lose it, and then be born again again. This much is clear: whoever openly and consciously rejects Jesus Christ is unregenerate even if he seemed to have been saved ealier." Whether he had lost his salvation or never had it to begin with, "either way, the result is identical." (note at Heb. 6:4ff, NRSV Harper Study Bible) . . . 4) In the New Testament (KJV) the terms backslider and backsliding do not occur at all -- not even once. Therefore, I see no need to "account for backsliders." . . . 5) I do not base my faith and doctrine on songs. I base it on the Word of God only. Further, no song is infallible. Infallibility and inerrancy extend only to the Scriptures and only in the original manuscripts. . . . 6) Matt 24, verses 22, 24 and 31 all speak of "the elect." Therefore the elect actually do exist. The elect is not a myth manufactured by Mr. Calvin. . . . 7) Matt 24:24 implies that it is NOT possible to deceive the elect, a point to which inhzsvc refers in the first sentence of his answer. . . . Instead of witty comebacks, cliche phrases and quoting the lyrics of current songs, one might wish to try basing his replies on Scripture.
	what does this mean, is there no hope?				Heb 6:4
	Angala, Hebrews 6:6 has been a constant theme throughout the entire Bible. At the end of chapter 5, the writer tells his readers to get back to the basics and know the foundations of the faith. “…you need someone to teach you the elementary truths of God’s word all over again” (5:12). So in that context, the writer briefly goes over it again, “Therefore let us leave the elementary teachings about Christ and go on to maturity, not laying again the foundation of repentance from acts that lead to death…” (6:1). The fact of the matter is, if you truly repent in your heart and turn back to God, He will always forgive you and save you. Repentance and salvation is the basic theme in the Old Testament and in the New Testament (look at Israel, how many times they’ve turned away but in the end God will save them (Rom 11:26). So Hebrews 6:4-6 is applied to those who have fallen away and will NOT repent and turn back to God. So concerning the subject of “falling away” (Hebrews 6:6), the Bible never says nor gives the impression that once saved you are "always" saved, and that you’ll never ever be able to turn away from God and lose your salvation. (Yes, of course once you are IN heaven, you will be "always saved" - that's true eternal security!). Let’s face it, the experienced mentioned in 6:4-5 describe a person completely saved. You don’t become “enlightened” or “taste of the heavenly gift” or “share in the Holy Spirit” and not be saved. That is what being saved is all about. Plus, this entire passage speaks nothing of “non-commitment.” No offense to JVH0212(I love you and bless you), but the scriptures he/she gave, in their context, do not support anything concerning once saved always saved. The experiences described were to show how stupid they are to turn away from God after having HAD experienced all that! Why do you think there are so many warnings for those who might fall away or have fallen away? In fact, the Bible explicitly speaks of those who will fall away. The writer of Hebrews himself even warns his readers of it in chapter 3! “See to it brother, that none of you has a sinful, unbelieving heart that TURNS AWAY from the living God. But encourage one another daily… so that none of you may be hardened by sin’s deceitfulness” (Heb 3:12). Paul warns Timothy, “Timothy, my son, I give you this instruction in keeping with the prophecies once made about you, so that by following them you may fight the good fight, holding on to faith and a good conscience. Some have rejected these and so have shipwrecked their faith. Among them are Hymenaeus and Alexander, whom I have handed over to Satan to be taught not to blaspheme (1Tim 1:18-20)…“The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons (1Tim 4:1),” and then also again in 1Timothy 6:21. Paul again writes Timothy and warns of these who have “wandered away from the truth”, “Their teaching will spread like gangrene. Among them are Hymenaeus and Philetus, who have wandered away from truth (2Tim 2:17-18).” Paul knows these people who were once working with him and were saved but have fallen away. “Do you best to come to me quickly, for Demas, because he loved this world, has deserted me and gone to Thessalonica (2 Tim 4:9).” Peter (the one who denied Jesus three times) wrote, “If they have escaped the corruption of the world by knowing our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and are AGAIN entangled in it and overcome, they are worse off at the end than they were at the beginning (2Peter2:20).” Why would Jesus warn us of false prophets and teachers who will try to deceive us if we weren’t able to possibly turn away? (Matt 7:15; 24:4). To make a long subject short, why would God bring you to Heaven if you don’t want to go? I myself, have known close friends who have turned away from God because they would rather have the things of this world and sin; they no longer want to live for God nor do they even want to believe in Him anymore. That’s how deceived they are, and they were once so saved. We can’t read scripture through rose-colored glasses. So many people are going to hell living their lives of sin and wickedness thinking they’re going to heaven because they can’t lose their salvation. I use to be one of them. I thank God that He brought me back to repentance again. Just keep loving Jesus and continue living for Him, keep your eyes on Him and cast off all the junk that might hinder you from doing that (Heb 12:1-2). Jesus Liberation, nameless
	Questions for my Calvinists friends.				Job 38:1
	I have cut and pasted in your three questions and now will try to answer them "directly", as best I can. 1) If God pre-chose only some individuals that were to be saved, why did he destroy them in the flood? I guess you could always say the Noah and family were the only ones he chose but why then go to all the trouble of populating the world and wipe it out with a flood? Answer: I'm not sure what you mean here. Who is the "them"? I suppose you refer to all of mankind dying in the flood. But this has nothing to do with election/free-will. To be blunt, everyone dies sooner or later. The only difference in this case (the Flood) was that all but 8 died all at once rather than just some each day. It is possible that some of them were elect and went on to paradise. Although this is doubtful in view of Gen 6:5-8 which seems to say that only Noah was found acceptable by God. But to imply a lack of election because of the timing and/manner of the physical deaths of many people is mixing apples and oranges. The same question could then apply to any case of mass slaughter of humans, some of whom may be elect and saved while others are not. Bluntly put, the question makes no sense. Sorry. 2) If God had his "Elect" already in mind and knew they were going to be saved because the could not resist God, why then did Jesus have to die? Answer: Jesus had to die and rise again to be the propitiation (atoning sacrifice) for the sins of the elect. The fact that a sinner has been chosen by God unto salvation is an act of a loving and gracious God showing forth his mercy towards someone who not only doesn't deserve mercy he actually deserves eternal punishment. But God is just as well as loving. Hence the penalty for the sin had to be paid by Someone who had no sin of His own to atone for. Hence the perfect sinless humanity of Jesus was an absolute requirement. He also had to be divine, infinite in His capacity to atone for the sins of more than just one person. God couldn't simply choose someone to salvation out of His loving nature without also satisfying His just nature. And to respond to one statement in your answer to your own question, Jesus was not sent to show us the path. He WAS/IS the path! 3) Why would it be harder for a rich man to enter the Kindgom of Heaven? Answer: One whose heart is set upon his earthly riches to the point that he prefers them to God is evidence that he has never been truly converted and has no real love for God (cf 1 Jn 2:15 and similar Scriptures). Hence, as it is obviously absurdly impossible for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle, it is even more absurd, or "harder", for the unconverted rich man to enter heaven. This question, by the way, would probably fit in better with a Lordship/cheap-grace debate rather than election/free-will. But in many respects the two questions are closely linked, anyway. But that is another topic for another time. Also, at the end of your comments you made a very telling remark that in effect contradicts your whole point. If God can over-ride the will (your words), then the will is not truly free, is it? And that is precisely the issue. Scripture, from beginning to end, shows that the will of fallen man always runs away from God rather than towards Him. (cf Rom 3:9-18; etc) The only way for God to save any person is to perform in such a way as to over-ride that evil will which is inherent to each and every one of us. Hope I have answered you directly enough. Ron (A poor sinner saved by the gracious choice of a loving and just God!)
	You are saved when you accept Christ .				John 3:5
	You are right, you must be baptized. It is a sacrament of forgivesness and rebirth. It is not a symbol. You are missing a key scripture verse. (John 3:5) where Jesus states: "Amen,amen, I say to you, no one can enter the kingdom of God without being born of water and spirit." Jesus is clearly talking about baptism in this verse. Read John 1:32 just before Jesus teaches Nicodemus about being born again. In this verse Christ, Himself was baptized by John the Baptist. Jesus goes down into the water and is baptized, the heavens open and the Holy Spirit descends upon him in the form of a dove. Christ did not have to be born again but He showed us what we must do in order to inherit the kingdom of God. The only logical conclusion one can make from the Biblical evidence is being born again is when one is properly baptized. The saving grace is baptism. Do you really believe in the once saved always saved theory. Again look at scripture. Scripture does not say "ALL" you have to do is accept Me [Jesus] as your Lord and Savior then you are saved from damnation. This is what the Bible says: Past Event (I have been saved) Rom 8:24-for in hope we were saved Eph 2:5,8-by grace you have been saved through faith 2Tim 1:9-he saved us,called us, according to his grace Tit 3:5 he saved us thru bath of rebirth, renewal by Holy Spirit Present Process (I am being saved) Phil 2:12 work out your salvation with fear and trembling 1 Pet 1:9 as you attain the goal of your faith,salvation Future Event (I will be saved) Mt 10:22 he who endures to the end will be saved Mt24:13 he who preseveres to the end will be saved Mk 8:35 whoever loses his life for my sake will save it Acts 15:11 we shall be saved through the grace of Jesus Rom5:9-10 since we are justified, we shall be saved Rom 13:11 salvation is nearer now than first believed 1Cor3:15 he will be saved, but only as through fire 1Cor 5:5 deliver man to Satan so his spirit may be saved Heb9:28 Jesus will appear second time, to bring salvation
	You can lose your salvation				Luke 23:26
	Unfortunately I think you are wrong this time. The doctrine of "once saved always saved" is very sound. According to Ephesians 1:4 we were chosen before the foundations of the world that we would be holy and blameless before Him. Now I believe my name is written in the Lambs book of life not on God's cosmic chalkboard where is can be erased and added depending on my sins. I was "Sealed for the day of redemption" and I will be there before the throne of God for all eternity and I hope to take as many people with me as possible. Paul talks about the peace that passes understanding. There is no peace in Christ if were are continuously being saved and losing that salvation over and over again. If that were the case we would not have a peace that passes understanding, but a mortal fear that even though were are serving Christ and spreading the Word of God, we could spend eternity in Hell. I am saved. I will always be saved. If it is not the case Christ died needlessly because his work on the Cross was insufficient to save me. Using your foxhole example: How can you be so sure that "if he is shot and killed he is going to heaven" when you think people can lose their salvation? How do you know he had salvation or if he had lost it in those first few seconds of his new life in Christ? The answer is simple. He was saved. He will always be saved. And he can have that peace that passes all understanding. CP7x77
	Does His blood wash away ALL our sins?				1 John 1:9
	Lifer, Romans 8:1 clearly states there is no condemnation to those who are in Christ (saved). If I believe this to be true, then no matter what sin I have ever committed or ever will commit, there is no condemnation to me because I am in Christ. This is not a liscence to sin and when we sin, we must judge our hearts as to why we sin, acknowledge that we have sinned and confess the sin to God. Our confession does not let God know something He doesn't already know and the sin is already forgiven. Unlike the temporary atonement prior to Calvary, Christ's atonement is a once and for all (sins and time) cleansing of sin. It does not prevent us from sinning but it does prevent us from being condemned for sinning. His atonement is a perpetual atonement always being made for His elect. Hebrews 10:11 explains how the Old Testament Priests stood daily ministering offerings time after time the same sacrifice that could not take away sins. However, our Lord is "seated" at the right hand of His Father, having taken away complete and utter condemnation for sins (past, present and future). No present or future work of atonement is necessary since Christ's atonement was complete. When, not if, a Christian dies and has unconfessed sin, that Christian is still a Christian and still under no condemnation of sin. Romans 8:1 settles that argument. There are some, however, who would have us believe that we must continually seek forgiveness in order to be what we already are. This is a works oriented salvation and usually goes hand in hand with free-will theism, though not always. This places the actions of man at the center of his salvation rather than Christ Himself. Hope this helps. Sam Hughey
	Do you believe once save, always saved.				Luke 23:43
	"Once saved, always saved"? It may be than no one on earth believes that "once saved, always saved." 1) The people who reject the doctrine of Eternal Security don't believe it. 2) In books and periodicals I've read by baptist authors and publishers, I have never found one mention of the phrase "Once saved, always saved." Nor have I ever heard that term from the pulpit of a baptist church. Therefore, we could conclude that nobody believes in "once saved, always saved."
	Do you believe once save, always saved.				Luke 23:43
	hello lou.do a word study on book.the book of life will come up and you will see that names were blotted out.but the real Key comes directly from Jesus mouth in Mathew 13:20 this man was saved and starts out strong but never finished the race.so the moral of the story is,you can be saved and start to grow in Christ for many years but if you let the cares of this world come between you and God then you will pay .YIC
	once saved always saved?				NT general
	If we took a vote of all the registered members of the Forum, the answer to your question would be No. If we quoted the Bible from now until Doomsday, folks here would still say No. If an angel from heaven came down and explained it, the popular answer would continue to be No. No matter which answer you would like to see -- yes, no or undecided -- you will find it if you use the search engine to looke for previous postings on this question which, I suppose, will forever remain a question.
	once saved always saved?				NT general
	I beleive no man can pluck you out of God's Hand but take what Paul says, " But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection; lest that by any means, when i have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway. 1 Cor9:27. God will keep if we will stay
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