|
| |
What was Jesus writing? |
|
|
|
John
|
| |
Was Jesus writing the Ten COmmandments in the sand, or was he writing the sins of each person in John 8 when he confronted those people? |
| |
What was Jesus writing? |
|
|
|
John
|
| |
Dear K, I don't think that anyone knows what He was writing, because we are not told. However, why He was writing could be that, as with any animal, eye contact causes emotions like anger and fear to escalate. This crowd was about to 'do their duty' of killing someone in the name of the Law. Jesus, with His unprovoking nature, logic, and authority, gave an opportunity for repentance and life to this sinner. Thank You, Jesus! |
| |
healing the man who was born blind by Je |
|
|
|
John
|
| |
I need contemplations on this great miracle that Jesus did for that blind man, and how can we use this story in teaching in sunday school for the youths.(john 9: 1-41) |
| |
healing the man who was born blind by Je |
|
|
|
John
|
| |
The theme of John is to get the hearer/reader to believe in Jesus and be saved.
Romans 10:14 says, "... How will they believe in Him whom they have not heard? ..." When we hear the gospel and believe it, we spiritually "see" that Jesus is the Savior.
At the end of the passage in question, Jesus turns the idea of blindness right around on the Pharisees.
John 9:40 Those of the Pharisees who were with Him heard these things and said to Him, "We are not blind too, are we?"
John 9:41 Jesus said to them, "If you were blind, you would have no sin; but since you say, 'We see,' your sin remains.
The man in the story starts out blind but ends up seeing... not just physical sight, but he "sees" that Jesus is the Christ. The Pharisees, while under the delusion that they have spiritual discernment (that they can "see") are really bilnd. The exalted Pharisees are humbled, i.e., shown they are blind; and the humble blind man is exalted, i.e., given the gift of faith (spirtual "sight").
In John 20:30-31, John tells us that these things were written so that we may believe that Jesus is the Christ and be saved.
This is why Jesus did the miracle, "so that the works of God might be displayed in him," (v. 3) and so that we might believe that Jesus Christ is OUR savior; he makes us "see" the truth about this -- heals our spiritual blindness -- and thereby causes us to cross over from death to eternal life in Him.
|
| |
healing the man who was born blind by Je |
|
|
|
John
|
| |
Dear bjanko, You have gotten and given the message from the (Light) of the world here. It's a good writing. My only question is why after in the beginning you spoke of Jesus as Savior you didn't finish as strongly? You say "he makes us "see" the truth about this". Why the lower case Savior?
I would compare Jn.8:22 with verse 48."'Where I am going, you cannot come.' And He was saying to them, "You are from below, I am from above; you are of this world, (I) am not of this world. Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins; for unless you believe that I am He, you will die in your sins." Compare V.47,"(whoever) is of God hears the words of (God); for this reason you do not hear them, because you are not of God.""The Jews answered and said to Him, "Do we not say rightly that You are a Samaritan and have a demon?"
Also, compare John 8:32 and John 14:7. John 8:32, "So Jesus was saying to those Jews who had believed (Him), "If you continue in My word, then you are truly disciples of Mine; and you will know the Truth, and the Truth will make you free."
John 14:7, "If you had known (Me), you would have known My Father also; from now on you know Him, and have seen Him."
So I would say that we could compare the works and the words of Jesus. John 9:4 says, "We must work the works of Him who sent Me as long as it is day; night is coming when no one can work. While I am in the world, I am the (Light) of the world."NASB Sorry, parenthesies mine. We have to decide if this is a man who must work now while its still light and not dark when no one can work; or, is this a Man who works the works of Him who sent Him. The key to the answer is the fact that this word "We" is translated "I must work" in many versions.
I have learned to contrast this verse with John 5:19, "Truly, truly, I say to you, the Son can do nothing of (Himself), unless it is something He sees the Father doing; for whatever the Father does, these things the Son also does in like manner. For the Father loves the Son, and shows Him all things that He (Himself) is doing; and the Father will show Him greater works than these, so that you will marvel." Of course the parentheses are mine for comparison.
The gospel of John was written to downplay the importance of the baptizer. Jn 5:35, "He was the lamp that was burning and was shining and you were willing to rejoice for a while in his light. But the testimony which I have is greater than the testimony of John; for the works which the Father has given (Me) to accomplish--the very works that I do--testify of Me, that the Father has sent Me."
Jn 5:33, "You have sent to John, and he has testified to the Truth. But the testimony which I receive in not from man, but I say these things so that you may be saved." John 5:39, "You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; it is these that testify about Me; and you are unwilling to come to Me so that you may have life."
I would say to salwag, compare scriptures with the kids, no matter what age. We want the light bulb to go on in their heads. We want them to open their eyes and study the word of God and the words of Jesus. Compare 9:5 with 11:9 or 8:12 and know that the testimony is true.
I would like to see kids after hearing the story, break into individual groups to read further and contemplate capitalizing this Man and give Him the glory He is due now. I would have them read John 9:15-29 and another read John 9:33-38 and see what similarities and contrast they see when they get together to discuss what they have read. Later, Ray V.H. |
| |
healing the man who was born blind by Je |
|
|
|
John
|
| |
Ray wrote: 'Dear bjanko, You have gotten and given the message from the (Light) of the world here. It's a good writing. My only question is why after in the beginning you spoke of Jesus as Savior you didn't finish as strongly? You say "he makes us "see" the truth about this". Why the lower case Savior?'
Because I forget to press the SHIFT key while typing the "s."
-- bjanko |
| |
healing the man who was born blind by Je |
|
|
|
John
|
| |
Hi bjanko, The thought had occured to me but I'm afraid I tend to use a mistake like that to express my obsession with capitalization. Please excuse me, I'll try to control myself. I think that sometimes a person can use many translations in study and writing, and it could be very easy to slip back to the lower case pronouns. Just call me "shifty" because I'll be using it and backspacing if I miss it. God is great.
You did have a good writing there. You mentioned John 20:31, "but these have been written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing you may have life in (His) name." The other reason for the writing of John was to downplay the importance of John the baptizer. John 1:19 "This is the testimony of John, when the Jews sent to him priests and Levites from Jerusalem to ask him, "Who are you?" And he confessed, "I am not the Christ." They asked him, "What then? Are you Elijah?" And he said, "I am not." Are you the (Prophet?)" And he answered, "No."
In the first chapter John the baptist says "This was He of whom I said, "He who comes after me has a higher rank than I, for He existed before me." (The Word became flesh) In verse 29 (The Lamb of God),"This is (He) on behalf of whom I said, 'After me comes a Man who has a higher rank than I, for He existed before me.' "I did not recognize Him, but so that He might be manifested to Israel, I came baptizing in water."
John was quoted to get the facts straight about who he was and what he came to do. He was the older cousin of Jesus and he knew who this Man was. He deserved a higher rank. I would say He deserved a higher letter.:-) This was (He), the (Prophet) "For of (His) fullness we have all received, and grace upon grace." And then going back to the Light of the beginning, "But as many as received Him to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in (His) name.verse 12, parentheses mine.
What's the bottom linem, then? I praise God that there are people like you who honor the name of Jesus and show it in their capitalization. Thanks for hearing me. Ray V.H. |
| |
Explain John 15:6 |
|
|
|
John
|
| |
John 15:6 - what is this verse actually saying? Most people who are advocates of "conditional security" rather than "eternal security" use this verse among many others. Can anyone please explain the matter of "thrown into the fire..." and "burned." |
| |
Explain John 15:6 |
|
|
|
John
|
| |
Jesus was speaking to His disciples in this passage. But many people were 'following' Him at this point in His ministry. Some followed because they believed Him to be the Messiah. Some followed just to see miracles. Some followed (Pharisees) looking for ways to discredit Him and prove Him false. Some followed for physical healing. In vs 3, Jesus tells His disciples that they are already clean because they believe Him to be Messiah. But they did not have Christ's life - the Holy Spirit in them. The Holy Spirit had not yet been given to 'seal' believers. In other words, though the disciples believed by faith, they hadn't yet received that 'life' of the vine. The vine (trunk, main root) is the source of life for the branch. The branch has no life of it's own. It draws it's sustenance from the vine i.e. if you cut it off, it dies. Until the day of Pentecost, people could follow Christ as He went to the cross, burial, and the tomb, for various reasons. And He stated time and again that He was the source of divine life - "I am the Way, the Truth, the Life.." "You search the scriptures because you think that in them you have life. They tell of Me, but you won't come to Me for life."
So, many people 'attached' themselves to Christ for various reasons. And many 'detached' themselves at various places in His ministry. Because they (and we) are born dead in trespasses and sin, if they didn't stay believing in Christ back then until the Spirit was given, they stayed spiritually dead if they forsook Him.
But at Pentecost, the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of Christ, came to 'indwell' believers, sealing them forever. Because the cross 'makes us clean,' the Spirit can now indwell all believers and permanently 'grafts' us into Christ. He is in us. We are in Him. A believer who comes to Him by faith, can NEVER be thrown away as a branch now, because the wages of sin - death is taken away by the blood of Christ. And the gift of God is eternal life. The only thing that could make the Spirit depart from a believer was sin. BUT, all sin was forgiven at the cross. So, now, after the cross, His life can NEVER depart from us. Before the cross, people could believe and have their sins forgiven but life could never be given on a permanent basis. That is why David, after he sinned, pleaded that the Spirit wouldn't be taken from him. We don't have to pray that prayer because, in God's eyes, believers are 'abiding in the vine,' baptized, identified with Christ. I hope this helps. |
| |
Explain John 15:6 |
|
|
|
John
|
| |
Stephanos,
I had to take care of some business so this is just a small addition to my previous reply. Your questions of "thrown into the fire..." and "burned" is pretty much just what it says. According to the Bible, all unbelievers will eventually be cast into the lake of fire that was created for the devil and his angels. I believe, based on my study of scripture, in a literal heaven and a literal hell. I will probably be criticized for this statement, but those who believe in a 'conditional salvation' do not understand what salvation is. In a nutshell, God created man with God's life - His Spirit in him. Adam and Eve chose to disbelieve God (that is the root of all sin - unbelief in what God says. The day they sinned, they 'spiritually' died. (They died physically much later.) Because of sin, God's Spirit left them. Everyone ever since, except Christ was 'born dead in trespasses and sin.' And, as you probably know, the wages of sin is death.
Under the Old Testament sacrificial system, God, in mercy allowed for substitutionary animal sacrifice to cover sin. "Without the shedding of blood, the is no forgiveness of sin." But the Old Covenant (law) could not impart God's life because sin hadn't been taken away yet.
When Christ died, He took away the sins of the world. All sins were taken away. He was made sin on our behalf. God was in Christ, reconciling the world to Himself, not counting men's sins against them. Three days after His death, Christ was raised from the dead and has become a life-giving spirit (and, yes, He does have a body). He now imparts His life to all who come to Him by faith in what He has done. As I said in my last reply, the reason the Holy Spirit can't leave us now is because the only thing that could make Him leave, sin, has been eternally dealt with at the cross through Christ's blood. To give eternal life, God had to deal eternally with what caused death - sin. That is why, when a believer sins '...there is now NO condemnation for those who are IN Christ Jesus. For the law of the Spirit of LIFE IN CHRIST Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and death.' (if you sin, you must die) Christ cured what caused our death, sin, and then imparted His life to us. That is why, I believe, salvation is secure. It is not based on what we do or don't do. It is based on what our Savior did for us. He said, "It is finished." I hope this helps. God bless.
|
| |
died and returned what did you see? |
|
|
|
John
|
| |
Has anyone here ever had an afterdeath experience?
What did you see?
Did you feel regret at having to come back?
Do you remember anything defining in your encounter? |
| |
died and returned what did you see? |
|
|
|
John
|
| |
yes i have a friend that had her throat cut and died and came back and she has accepted Jesus as saviour, as she explained the memories are still vivid.but she knows that there is a God and such a urphoric sensation that is associated with Him .hard to explain she said. |
| |
The original language of John? |
|
|
|
John
|
| |
"One piece of 'evidence' that is used to impeach the Bible is bad grammar that appears in the gospel of John. For example, The Greek version of John 19:31 contains one line of bad grammar, which reads, "the Jews did not want the bodies [plural] left on the cross [singular] during the Sabbath". Why? Let's take a look at where the gospel of John came from, and it will be easier to explain this "problem".
BACKGROUND
The apostle John spent most of his life as an apostle to the Mid-east regions of the world(Damascus, Syria, Iraq, etc) where various forms of Aramaic was the common tongue. He frequently refers to Jesus as the "Word" and is the only writer who uses this term for Jesus. This term is also found extensively in the Aramaic translations of the Hebrew scriptures.
In Lives of Illustrious Men (chapter IX), Jerome said the Gospel of John was written at the request of the bishop of Asia (Asia Minor and/or Mideast). The word "Asia" in the early writings of the saints was used to refer not only to what we call "Asia" in our modern day language-the Pac Rim, but also the Mid-East region. So John's gospel was written for an Aramaic speaking world. Would John write to an Aramaic speaking world in Greek or Aramaic?
TEXTUAL EVIDENCE
Jerome, who translated the Bible into Latin, notes how John quotes from the Hebrew, not the Greek version of the Tanakh. In a letter to Pammachius on the Best Method of Translating, He says "John quotes from the Hebrew, "They shall look on him whom they pierced," for which we read in the Septuagint, "And they shall look upon me because they have mocked me," and in the Latin version, "And they shall look upon me for the things which they have mocked or insulted."
Elsewhere, Jerome mentions how it was normal for Greek scribes to revise the Greek manuscripts so as to agree with the Septuagint. But this quotation was not revised, indicating it was not influenced by the Greek wording, but by the Hebrew choice of words. Also, we have to ask ourselves why the Greek manuscripts didn't agree with the Greek version of the Tanakh (Old Testament) in the first place as well as why the scribes thought it was OK to revise them. Did they think they were only changing a translation?
Let me quote the HRV New Testament on John 12:11, which is rather convincing...
"One word that the Greek translators often misunderstood was the Aramaic word 'EZAL (alef-zayin-lamed) which normally means "to go" or "to depart" but is used idiomatically in Aramaic to mean that some action goes forward and that something progresses "more and more".
One case where the Greek translator misunderstood this word and translated to literally is in Jn. 12:11:
Because that by reason of him many of the Jews went away (?), and believed on Jesus. (KJV)
Now I have translated the Aramaic of this passage as follows:
because many of the Judeans, on account of him, were trusting more and more ('EZAL) in Jesus."
INSIGHTS
The gospel of John certainly seems to be developing some Aramaic thought. Genesis 1:1 reads as follows:
Hebrew "In the beginning, GOD/ELOHIM created the heavens and the earth"
Aramaic "In the beginning, THE WORD created the heavens and the earth."
The Aramaic translations interpretted the Hebrew version a little bit -interpretting "Elohim" as "the Word", rather than translating it as "Eloah" (which is Aramaic for "God" or "Elohim"). This translation is evidence of Jewish thought on the Godhead even before Jesus arrived. John was expounding upon this and demonstrating that Jesus was the "Word" Jews have always considered part of the Godhead by re-phrasing the Aramaic and Hebrew texts by saying...
John 1: "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God...through Him all things were made...and the Word became flesh."
So John was equating the Aramaic translation of his day with the Hebrew. John is the only New Testament writer that calls Y'shua the "Word", and he does so in the gospel of John, Revelation, and 1 John.
The Greek John 1:42 says 'And he brought him to Jesus. Jesus looked at him and said, "You are Simon son of John. You will be called Cephas" (which, when translated, is Peter ).'. The Aramaic version of John 1:42 does not have the addition "(which, when translated, is Peter). "
So the assertion that the gospel of John uses bad grammar is false. The original Aramaic is just fine. It's only the translations into Greek and English that have a problem."
part 1 of 2
|
| |
The original language of John? |
|
|
|
John
|
| |
"OTHER ITEMS
John 5:2 says, "Now there is in Jerusalem near the Sheep Gate a pool, which in Hebrew is called Beyit Hesedah. (Bethesda)"
Now "Hesedah" (Hebrew) or "Hesdah" (Aramaic) has a meaning in Hebrew that is opposite it's meaning in Aramaic. So while there's no known reason a Greek writer would stop to explain this name and leave other names unexplained, we see clearly why an Aramaic writer would stop to explain that this name is of Hebrew origin even though other names would not be explained in a similar fashion. In Hebrew, "Hesed" means "mercy, grace, etc". In Aramaic "Hesdah" (pronounced a little different but spelled with the same root letters) means "disgrace". Since the word is of Hebrew origin, rather than Aramaic, it would be a significant thing to mention to an Aramaic audience. Most vocabular words that are cognant to both Hebrew and Aramaic have the same meaning, but that's not the case for this word.
THE "PARAKLETE"
The word "paraklete" is interesting because it appears in both the Greek and Aramaic versions of John 14:16,26, 15:26, and 16:7 and could have separate etymologies in the two languages.
HEBREW/ARAMAIC MEANING: The Aramaic word "parakletah" appears in the Aramaic version of Isaiah 66:13, written before the New Testament. It also is used in the Aramaic version of Job 16:20 and 33:23. It is a translation of the Hebrew word for "comfort", and thus means "comforter". The Hebrew "paraklete" can mean "advocate" and appears used this way in the
Mishnah, m.Avot 4:11a. Also the Jewish Dictionary states "..The sin offering is like the paraclete before God ‘it interceded for man and is followed by another ... a thank offering for the pardon obtained... The two daily burnt offerings are called 'the two parcletes'.." (pp. 514-515).
GREEK MEANING: In Greek, it could be a transliteration of the Aramaic word or it could be Greek meaning "one called alongside". parakaleo is the closest word in Greek to parakletos which means "called alongside". But it
is not a common word in Greek. The only known pre-New Testament usage of this word in Greek appears in The Peloponnesian War by Thucydides, written 431 BC, where it appears in a slight variation from the way it appears in the gospel account (aparakletoi). All other appearances of this word
are after the gospel record from men referring to it.
Now most modern translations use the root meaning of the Aramaic version of this word if they translate it and translate it as "Comforter" or
"Advocate", using the Aramaic etymology rather than the Greek etymology of "called alongside one". Either the Aramaic or Greek meanings could make sense.
While the Greek version of John 19:31 contains one line of bad grammar, which reads, "the Jews did not want the bodies [plural] left on the cross [singular] during the Sabbath". The Aramaic version says, "the Jews did not want the bodies [plural] left on the crosses [plural] during the Sabbath". So maybe this was just a bad translation from Aramaic to Greek and not how John originally wrote this.
Also, the Aramaic version of John gives us some insights that are missing in the Greek version. In John 4:34, Jesus said, "'My food,' said Jesus, 'is to do the will of him who sent me and to finish his work'"
The word "food" here in the Aramaic version of John is "makhulta", which sounds a lot like the Aramaic word for "kingdom", which is "malkhuta". So the point He was making is "my food is my kingdom". Note how He connects "food/makhulta" with "do the will" and a king is characterized by
giving orders/being the one in charge, etc.
Now the priests ate food in the process of performing their priestly duties. So the Torah model included a group of people who ate food in obedience to the will of the king and 1 Peter 2:5,9 tells us that believers in Jesus are a "royal priesthood"! So this play on words hinted at an allegory."
part 2 of 2 (My friend's thesis on the language of John) |
| |
how many great things Jesus do |
|
|
|
John
|
| |
how many great things Jesus do |
| |
how many great things Jesus do |
|
|
|
John
|
| |
Tina, Only some are recorded
The greatest was His dying on the cross for me. He was the greatest Teacher, He healed and cured many, lived a perfect life, was a servent, rose again, ascended into heaven, asked God to send the Holy Spirit, prayed for me ... this is a short list of what He did on earth.
Now He intercedes for me, is preparing my room ... and so much more.
Is this the answer you were looking for?
Steve |
| |
how many great things Jesus do |
|
|
|
John
|
| |
Hello tina!
How many great things has Jesus done, you ask?
Jesus is still doing 'great things'! He has risen, and like the Apostle John says "And there are also many other things which Jesus did, which if they were written in detail, I suppose that even the world itself would not contain the books that would be written." (John 21:25)
Nolan |
| |
Explain John 15:6 |
|
|
|
John
|
| |
John 15:2
2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.
(KJV)
John 15:6
6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.
(KJV)
Jesus speaks of three different kinds of people. In verse 2, he speaks of two of them. They are branches in him meaning they are saved. Some bear fruit and are pruned to bear more fruit. The others bear no fruit and are taken away. They might be backslid or spiritually immature,but they bear no fruit. This goes along with the parable of the sower (Matt. 13:1-9). Some seed grew on stony ground and could not withstand the elements because it had no deep roots (spiritually immature). Some seed grew in the thorns and the thorns choked it (backslid). Some seed grew on good soil and bore much fruit ("branch that beareth fruit"). The group in verse 6, describes the seed that fell by the wayside and the fowls devoured them. They never grew and never became branches.....they were cast forth LIKE branches. They were never attached to the vine at any time. If they had been, they would not have withered. Since they have no value, and no one wants them, then they must be burned (Hell). In verses 2-5, Jesus talks about abiding in me that you might bear fruit. In verse 6, he says abide in me or you will be burned meaning that you are not his......
Matt 7:22-23
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
(KJV)
|
| |
Explain John 15:6 |
|
|
|
John
|
| |
. . . John 15:6 (NASB) "If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away as a branch and dries up; and they gather them, and cast them into the fire and they are burned." John 15:4-6 Abide in Me. "The word 'abide' means to remain or stay around. The 'remaining' is evidence that salvation has already taken place (1 John 2:19) and not vice versa. The fruit or evidence of salvation is continuance in service to Him and in His teaching (John 8:31; 1 John 2:24; Col 1:23). The abiding believer is the only legitimate believer. Abiding and believing actually are addressing the same issue of geniune salvation (Heb 3:6-19)."
. . . Romans 11:22 (NASB) "Behold then the kindness and severity of God; to those who fell, severity, but to you, God's kindness, if you continue in His kindness; otherwise you also will be cut off." "11:22 Consider the goodness and severity. All of God's attributes work in harmony; there is no conflict between His goodness and love, and His justice and wrath. Those who accept His gracious offer of salvation experience His goodness (2:4); those who reject it experience His severity (2:5).
. . . Those who fell. The unbelieving Jews described in Rom 11:12-21. 'Fell' translates a Greek word meaning 'to fall so as to be completely ruined.' Those who reject God's offer of salvation bring upon themselves utter spiritual ruin.
. . . If you continue. Genuine saving faith always perseveres (compare John 8:31; 15:5,6; Col 1:22,23; Heb 3:12-14; 4:11; 1 John 2:19).
. . . Cut off. From the same Greek root word translated 'severity' earlier in the verse. God will deal swiftly and severely with those who reject Him."
New Revised Standard Version Hebrews 6:4 "For it is impossible to restore again to repentance those who have once been enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have shared in the Holy Spirit, 5 and have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6 and then have fallen away, since on their own they are crucifying again the Son of God and are holding him up to contempt."
. . . "For it is impossible to restore again to repentance those who have (done all these things in vv. 4-5) and then have fallen away." "There is no possibility of these verses referring to losing salvation. Many Scripture passages make unmistakably clear that salvation is eternal (compare John 10:27-29; Rom 8:35,38,39; Phil 1:6; 1 Pet 1:4,5). Those who want to make this verse mean that believers can lose salvation will have to admit that it would then also say that one could never get it back again."
. . . (All quoted commentary is from the MacArthur Study Bible, Word Publishing, 1997.) |
| |
predestination - free will or God |
|
|
|
John
|
| |
We are studying Ephesians 1:5,11 predestination. The pastor said, "the Holy Spirit quickens a man so he can hear the call but man has the free-will to say YES or NO to the offer of salvation."
in John 6:37,39 Jesus says ALL the Father gave Him will be saved, that He will not lose any of them. in Eph.2:8-9, Paul says "...faith, a gift of God, not of works..."
it seemed to me that God chooses which of us He wants and He gets us. He is sovereign. when i asked (one on one, outside of class) the pastor to explain, he refused, said he didn't want to talk about it now. i then gave him a list of verses which i thought supported God's supremacy and asked for verses from him which supported man's free will. nothing in response after 2 weeks.
if any of you believe man has a free will to say NO to God regarding salvation, please give me some verses.
|
| |
predestination - free will or God |
|
|
|
John
|
| |
Jim-
I don't know if I can help you out much here. But I know that before God created the world, He knew who would and who would not believe. The opportunities to believe are placed there for us and He knows how we would respond. Is that predestination? I am not sure. But to me it does not matter and is a moot point. I DID believe. Does that mean I can sit back and say that if God wants my neigbor saved, he will be saved whether I do anything about it or not? It means that I will follow what my God says and do what I can to present the Gospel to my neighbor. I will try to walk in a manner worthy of the name "Child of God". Whether God knows that he will be saved or not is not the point. The point is, am I doing my part?
Debbie |
| |
how many great things Jesus do |
|
|
|
John
|
| |
I am not sure what you mean. Many miracles were documented in the gospels. John 21:25 says very few were written of all He had done. It would be wonderful to have a list of them all, wouldn't it?
Debbie |
| |
predestination - free will or God |
|
|
|
John
|
| |
KJV.Mans freewill to say yes or no regarding salvation verses:De.30;15,Jos.24:15,Ru.1:15,1Kings18:21,MT.27:17 Mk.10:21.. Maybe this will help you. |
| |
predestination - free will or God |
|
|
|
John
|
| |
Jim, God does predestine (Rom 8:30) ... but, we still have a call on His name to be saved (10:13).
If you are a Christian, he chose you. He chose me. However, we do not know who else He has choosen. So someone needs to be sent to them to preach, so they can hear, then believe, finally call on Him (10:15-13).
Steve |
| |
Why did John write? |
|
|
|
John
|
| |
What is John's purpose for writing? What supports this? |
| |
Why did John write? |
|
|
|
John
|
| |
John 20:31 "these have been written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing you may have life in His
name."
|
| |
predestination - free will or God |
|
|
|
John
|
| |
preacher man -
thanks for the references. now, another question - is it appropriate to use OT reference to a New Covenant issue. God offered a NEW way to heaven once His Son died for our sins.
also, the issue isn't "does man have a free will?" but "does man have the free will to say NO to God regarding the gift of salvation offered by Jesus' sacrifice?"
in both OT and NT, it is clear that man has a free will to sin. i have not found reference that says we can say NO to God's offer to His elect for their salvation.
|
| |
predestination - free will or God |
|
|
|
John
|
| |
jim in san jose: I welcome you to the Forum. What follows is no criticism of you, sir. I am merely pointing out the dissension and unending debate the question of election or predestination has already caused in the past. I hope you elect to stay with us here on the Forum.
On this Forum in the recent past, Calvinism vs. Arminianism (predestination/election vs. freewill) has been the subject of a long, bitter debate that left people with hard feelings. I think it very unwise, counterproductive and risky to start up again on what is now a very tired and tiresome debate. There is no need for everybody to go back over all the arguments for each side.
Jim, I do not mean to imply that you yourself are quarrelsome or that your intent is to get a debate going here. I am not trying to tell you what to do, nor would I. It isn't you, Jim, it's the subject, which, although a reasonable one for research, is one that is better avoided around here. No one is trying to restrict anyone from asking questions. In fact, whenever someone posts any question regarding a past topic, it is recommended they look it up using the Search function. We are not only trying to avoid highly controversial issues, but we are hoping to save everyone's time and move on to new subjects.
We have really had enough of the predestination debate. So for the sake of maintaining peace and avoiding hard feelings, it would be better if everyone just dropped the subject. (Of course, I am merely another member of the Forum just as everyone else is. This is only a suggestion.) Well over 100 questions and answers have been posted regarding Calvinism vs. Arminianism. Use the Search function on the homepage to find many previous questions, answers and notes on the subject of predestination (election). Also note that you will want to look up the word "election" since it is the word most used here to mean predestination.
Thank you for your consideration in this matter. And, again, welcome to the Forum.
--JVH0212
"In essentials unity, in nonessentials liberty, and in all things charity."
|
| |
predestination - free will or God |
|
|
|
John
|
| |
P.S. Jim: Really you are fortunate to have picked a subject so easily researched on the Forum. Every possible point, objection, and counterpoint is at your fingertips.
Also, Jim, please don't think I was being casual when I suggested you look it up using the Search function. If you need any help finding what you're looking for using Search, I will be more than happy to help you.
Grace to you,
--JVH0212 |
| |
predestination - free will or God |
|
|
|
John
|
| |
Sorry I picked the 'wrong' subject for my first attempt at the forum. My original question was, and still is, what Bible verses are used to support man's free will in accepting or rejecting Christ. I'm really only interested in the Bible verses.
I haven't learned the search utility yet, but will work on it.
Thanks. |
| |
| To See More, Click Here... |
|
|
