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EdB, Did He die on Thursday? |
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John 19:31
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Nolan then don’t take it seriously!
Yes I did attend Good Friday service and Maundy Thursday services all my life and still do. I also know many of the Pastors that minister those services felt Jesus most likely was crucified on Thursday but don’t care to make waves.
If you want to get serious and look at the evidence I can do that to.
Check Leviticus chapter 23 and where you see the word 'Holy Convocation' substitute word 'Sabbath'. Trust me on this it’s the same, read verse 3. Now read verse 4-8 and what do you see Passover day is a Holy Convocation or Sabbath. What is the day after? Another Sabbath.
For the Jews to crucify Jesus on Friday they would have been breaking the Sabbath they said they didn’t want to break in John 19:31.
Notice also it is called a High Sabbath. Ask any Jew which Sabbath is the High Sabbath he will response the 'Shabbat Gadol' or 'Shabbaton' which all are names for the Passover Sabbath. Ask him also the name of the day before Passover and he will tell you it is called 'The' Preparation day. The days before weekly Sabbaths are also preparations days but are they are not known as 'The' Preparation day. You will have to trust me on this or ask a Jew, I have interviewed many on the subject.
Let’s count Jewish days. They run from 6pm to 6pm. Trust me on this or read Genesis 1:5 and/or talk to a Jew.
You say Jesus died some time after 3Pm Friday
3pm – 6pm Friday - 1 partial day
6pm – 6am Saturday or the Sabbath night-1 night
6am – 6pm Saturday or the Sabbath day - 1 day
6pm – 6am Sunday night - 1 night
6am – resurrection - 1 partial day
Let’s add them up 2 partial days and 1 full day okay we will call that 3 days.
But I only see 2 nights any way I count it to the Jew there was only 2 nights. We are short 1 night.
Let’s look at Jesus the fulfillment of the spring feast. We know Jesus was considered the Passover Lamb. The Passover lamb was selected on Nissan the 10 th Exodus 12:3. For Jesus to fulfill the Christology, Jesus would had to be chosen that day which I believe he was by his triumphant entry and the people crying Hosanna 'save us' on what we call Palm Sunday. If he entered Jerusalem on Nissan the 10 th the Passover Lamb had to be killed at Twilight of the 14 th of Nissan or 4 days later. Jesus died at twilight on Nissan the 14 th which would be Thursday. Jesus’ resurrection fulfilled the feast of the wave offering and Jesus then fulfilled the feast of first fruits Lev 23:15-22 with Pentecost. You see he fulfilled all the spring or 'planting' feast and the only thing that remains are the fall or 'harvest' feast which I believe Jesus will fulfill with His return.
Now do one last thing talk to a Messianic Jew, I haven’t found one that will buy the story that Jesus was crucified on Friday. Reading the account in the New Testament and knowing Jewish law they naturally assume it was Thursday or 'the' Preparation day before the Passover Sabbath
I’m sure you will produce many books and commentaries that show me wrong and I assure you I can produce an equal number that agree with me. I have discussed and debated this subject for a few years.
If you don’t want to consider conjecture that is equally okay since it has no effect on either of our salvations.
Whatever you do or however you respond please bear in mine I have not attacked you in any way. I have not insulted your intelligence, belittled you or questioned your salvation. Please give me the same consideration. |
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How could they change minds so quickly? |
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Matt 26:5
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Hello Steve! Good question..
"They said, Barabbas—What a fickle crowd! A little before they all hailed him as the Son of David, and acknowledged him as a gift from God; now they prefer a murderer to him! But this it appears they did at the instigation of the chief priests. We see here how dangerous wicked priests are in the Church of Christ; when pastors are corrupt, they are capable of inducing their flock to prefer Barabbas to Jesus, the world to God, and the pleasures of sense to the salvation of their souls. The invidious epithet which a certain statesman gave to the people at large was, in its utmost latitude, applicable to these Jews,—they were a SWINISH MULTITUDE." (Adam Clarke's Commentary on the NT)
"Persuaded the multitude—The release of a prisoner was to be to the PEOPLE, not to the RULERS.
The rulers, therefore, in order to secure the condemnation of Jesus, urged on the people to demand Barabbas. The people were greatly under the influence of the priests. Galileans among the citizens of Jerusalem were held in contempt. The priests turned the pretensions of Jesus into ridicule. Hence, in a popular tumult, among a flexible and changing multitude, they easily excited those who, but a little before, had cried Hosanna, to cry, Crucify him." (Barnes' Notes on the NT)
Blessings,
Nolan!
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how far ever direction did jesus travel |
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NT general
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9. Ninth Journey.
February, A.U.C. 782- Passover, 782. (Cf. Luke, xvii-xxii; Mark., x, xiv; Matt., xix-xxvi; John, xi, xii.)
This last journey took Jesus from Ephrem northward through Samaria, then eastward along the border of Galilee into Peraea, then southward through Peraea, westward across the Jordan, through Jericho, Bethania on Mt. Olivet, Bethphage, and finally to Jerusalem. While in the most northern part of the journey, He cured ten lepers; a little later, He answered the questions raised by the Pharisees concerning the kingdom of God. Then He urged the need of incessant prayer by proposing the parable of the unjust judge; here too belong the parable of the Pharisee and Publican, the discourse on marriage, on the attitude of the Church towards the children, on the right use of riches as illustrated by the story of the rich young ruler, and the parable of the labourers in the vineyard. After beginning His route towards Jerusalem, He predicted His Passion for the third time; James and John betray their ambition, but they are taught the true standard of greatness in the Church. At Jericho Jesus heals two blind men, and receives the repentance of Zacheus the publican; here He proposed also the parable of the pounds entrusted to the servants by the master. Six days before the pasch we find Jesus at Bethania on Mt. Olivet, as the guest of Simon the leper; Mary anoints His feet, and the disciples at the instigation of Judas are indignant at this seeming waste of ointment. A great multitude assembles at Bethania, not to see Jesus only but also Lazarus; hence the chief priests think of killing Lazarus too. On the following day Jesus solemnly entered Jerusalem and was received by the Hosanna cries of all classes of people. In the afternoon He met a delegation of Gentiles in the court of the Temple. On Monday Jesus curses the barren fig tree, and during the morning He drives the buyers and sellers from the Temple. On Tuesday the wonder of the disciples at the sudden withering of the fig tree provokes their Master's instruction on the efficacy of faith. Jesus answers the enemies' questions as to His authority; then He proposes the parable of the two sons, of the wicked husbandmen, and of the marriage feast. Next follows a triple snare: the politicians ask whether it is lawful to pay tribute to Caesar; the scoffers inquire whose wife a woman, who has had several husbands, will be after ressurection; the Jewish theologians propose the question: Which is the first commandment, the great commandment of the law? Then Jesus proposes His last question to the Jews: "What think you of Christ? whose son is he?" This is followed by the eightfold woe against the Scribes and Pharisees, and by the denunciation of Jerusalem. The last words of Christ in the Temple were expressions of praise for the poor widow who had made an offering of two mites in spite of her poverty. Jesus ended this day by uttering the prophecies concerning the destruction of Jerusalem, His second coming, and the future judgement; these predictions are interrupted by the parable of the ten virgins and the talents. On Wednesday Jesus again predicted His Passion; probably it was on the same day that Judas made his agreement with the Jews to betray Jesus.
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Is there a difference in being baptized |
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Acts 2:38
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Saved by Grace, The churches have been divided over this issue for as long as I can remember. Should we be baptized in the Father, Son, Holy Spirit or Jesus's names only? I concur with what Hank and Norrie have said, but we must take the theology one step further. Take the word Jesus, and take it back to the original Greek and what does the word itself mean? NT:2424
NT:2424
Iesous (ee-ay-sooce'); of Hebrew origin [OT:3091]; Jesus (i.e. Jehoshua), the name of our Lord and two (three) other Israelites:
OT:3091
Yehowshuwa (yeh-ho-shoo -ah); or Yehowshu- a (yeh-ho-shoo-ah); from OT:3068 and OT:3467; Jehovah-saved; Jehoshua (i.e. Joshua), the Jewish leader: -Jehoshua, Jehoshuah, Joshua. Compare OT:1954, OT:3442.
OT:3068
Yehovah (yeh-ho-vaw); from OT:1961; (the) self-Existent or Eternal; Jehovah, Jewish national name of God:
KJV - Jehovah, the Lord. Compare OT:3050, OT:3069.
OT:1961
hayah (haw-yaw); a primitive root [compare OT:1933]; to exist, i.e. be or become, come to pass (always emphatic, and not a mere copula or auxiliary):
KJV - beacon, X altogether, be (-come), accomplished, committed, like), break, cause, come (to pass), do, faint, fall, follow, happen, X have, last, pertain, quit (oneself-), require, X use.
OT:1933
hava' (haw-vaw); or havah (haw-vaw); a primitive root [compare OT:183, OT:1961] supposed to mean properly, to breathe; to be (in the sense of existence):
KJV - be, X have.
Now that we have Jesus's name broke down, let's look at the name of God. OT:3050
Yahh (yaw); contraction for OT:3068, and meaning the same; Jah, the sacred name:
KJV - Jah, the Lord, most vehement. Compare names in "-iah," "-jah."
Look above for #3068 that was used for the translation for Jesus.
As we can see the name of God is within Jesus's name as is stated above. So when you put it together the name Jesus means God's saviour.
John 14:16-17
16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
KJV
Matt.18:20
20 For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.
KJV
So as we can see when we call upon the Name of Jesus, we are calling upon the name of the Father, Son, Holy Spirit.
Even the average person knew this at the time when Jesus was here upon the earth. for as it says,
Matt 21:9
9 And the multitudes that went before, and that followed, cried, saying, Hosanna to the Son of David: Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord; Hosanna in the highest.
KJV
NT:5614
hosanna (ho-san-nah'); of Hebrew origin [OT:3467 and OT:4994]; oh save!; hosanna (i.e. hoshia-na), an exclamation of adoration:
Does not it also say in John 1:1-2,
John 1:1-2
1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 The same was in the beginning with God.
KJV
John 10:30
30 I and my Father are one.
KJV
For as we can see according to the Word that to baptize in the Father, Son, Holy Spirit is correct and to baptize in the name of Jesus is also correct. So this battle in the churches today is ridiculous. All it does is dvide the many members of the body of Christ (Jesus). Also stated by Hank and Norrie that the most important is Grace and Faith.
John 3:16
16 "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
(from New International Version)
Eph 2:8
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
KJV
Rom 10:8-13
9 That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved. 11 As the Scripture says, "Anyone who trusts in him will never be put to shame." 12 For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile-the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him, 13 for, "Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved."
(from New International Version)
I pray with all my heart that this senseless division of baptism would end. For they are both correct. I hope with all my heart that this has helped you.
PRAISEMASTER
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Who was Jesus asking God to forgive? |
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Luke 23:34
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Did the following know what they were doing?
Jewish leaders - yes, they knew He was the Messiah
Jewish crowd - some, it was the fifth day since
His entry into Jerusalem. They cried Hosanna.
Rest of the crowd - along with the Jews, all they were doing was jeering
Romans - maybe Pilate, but I doubt the soldiers knew who He was, or care ... so I think it was them.
IMHO,
Searcher
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WAS JESUS GOD ON EARTH TOO OR JUSTMAN |
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Ps 8:5
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To Radioman and EdB:
Do not think that I came to bring peace on earth. I did not come to bring peace but a sword.
For I have come to 'set a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law';
and 'a man's enemies will be those of his own household.'
He who loves father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me. And he who loves son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me.
And he who does not take his cross and follow after Me is not worthy of Me.
He who finds his life will lose it, and he who loses his life for My sake will find it.
- Matthew 10:34-39
Judge not, that you be not judged.
For with what judgement you judge, you will be judged; and with the measure you use, it will be measured back to you.
And why do you look at the speck in your brother's eye, but do not consider the plank in your own eye?
Or how can you say to your brother, 'Let me remove the speck from your eye': and look, a plank is in your own eye?
Hypocrite! First remove the plank from your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye.
Do not give what is holy to the dogs; nor cast your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you in pieces.
- Matthew 7:1-6
Then Jesus went into the temple of God and drove out all those who bought and sold in the temple, and overturned the tables of teh money changers and the seats of those who sold doves.
And he said to them,"It is written, 'My house shall be called a house of prayer,' but you have made it a 'den of thieves.'"
Then the blind and the lame came to Him in the temple, and He healed them.
But when the chief priests and scribes saw the wonderful things that He did, and the children crying out in the temple and saying, "Hosanna to the Son of David!" they were indignant
and said to Him,"Do You hear what they are saying?" and Jesus said to them,"Yes, Have you never read,
'Out of the mouth of babes and
nursing infants
You have perfected praise'?" -Matthew 21:12-16 |
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Romans 10:9: is it too simple? |
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Rom 10:9
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Hosanna in the highest!!
Simplicity--that is exactly what Jesus preached. All the times He rebuked the Pharisees, He was speaking directly at the complexity(ies) which they had added to the scriptures. That is what He meant when He said in Mark 10:15, " Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child, he shall not enter therein." In other words, salvation is so simple, even a child could understand it. And we should accept our salvation with the simple love of a child.
Another verse which speaks to this is 2 Cor. 11:3--"But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the SIMPLICITY that is in Christ."[emphasis mine] Compare our means of salvation to the many sacrifices the Jews had to offer in the old testament.
He Will
2nd Samuel 22:26-28
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