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A question of capitalization: small "s"? |
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Bible general Archive 1
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Hi JVH, It is good to hear from you, truly. I appreciate your quote of the MacArthur Study Bible and his capitalization of Angel. I've noticed now that NASB still has verse 28 in lower case with NKJ having Angel also. I haven't gone through Daniel in a long while and I haven't always capitalized angel; it has been and probably will be a difficult decision in the future. But I have kept your words in mind and have made my copy back to "and the appearance of the fourth is like a son of the gods." (I'd even encourage every Tom, Richard, and Harry to consider penciling that in their NKJ).
In exchange I'd like you to consider the NKJ capitalization of Daniel 3:29, "inasmuch as there is no other God who is able to deliver in this way." This should be in contrast to Daniel 3:15 "and what god is there who can deliver you out of my hands?" It is the answer for NKJ "who is the god who will deliver you from my hands?" Over and over we read in scripture we read "He is able" or the "One who is able". Amen.
If I can throw in a joke. I am reminded of the fishermen telling stories, with one of them ending the time saying, "I'll put the light out of the lantern I snagged if you'll take twenty inches off the fish you caught." But I think we had a good exchange here.(If accepted.)
In passing, concerning Daniel, I would capitalize Spirit of the holy God in Daniel 4:9 and wherever it appears. (The NKJ has "Spirit of the Holy God.")
I welcome your comments. Thanks. Later, Ray |
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Matt 28:19 Words of Christ or not |
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Acts 2:38
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An answer I saw on this subject came from a Q and A post on the 700 Club's web site. The question was, "Is baptism in Jesus name valid?" Their minister answered, "Yes, because Paul states that in Jesus dwells the fullness of the Godhead bodily. (Col 2:9)" The argument comes down to the age old question of who exactly is Jesus Christ. Jesus declared that He was the Great I AM when He told the Pharasees "Before Abraham was, I am." My answer is that Jesus Christ is YHWH aka Yahweh or Jehovah God of the Old Testament manifested in human flesh. The name Jesus is Yehoshua in Hebrew, shortened to Y'shua by the Jews in order to avoid misuse of the divine name of God represented in the first sylible of His name. It is literally one of the many compound "Names of God" found in the Scripture such as Jehovah Girah (The Lord that Provides) or Jehovah Nissi (The Lord our banner). Translated it means "Jehovah has become our salvation" or "Jehovah the Saviour".
Jesus literally came in His Father's name. In Isaiah God said through the prophet, "Isa 43:11 I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour.
Isa 43:12 I have declared, and have saved, and I have showed, when there was no strange god among you: therefore ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, that I am God."
When Isaiah prophesied the birth of Jesus, he identified who the son really would be. In one scripture he stated that his name would be called Emmanuel, translated God with us. In another verse he went further:
Isa 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
Can you see that Isaiah is saying that Jesus IS the mighty God and the Everlasting FATHER? Remember there is only one God. Jesus is not a separate God but an intergral part of the whole.
In Matthew 28:19 we have 3 prepositional phrases modifying the singular noun "name". The command says to baptize in the NAME (a singular name)of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. The Father's name is not "Father", and we know that the Son's name is Jesus. God is a Spirit that is Holy, hense Holy Spirit, not a separate entity or person. The Hebrew name Yehoshua incorporates the name Yahweh and is literally one of the compound names of God given in scripture. This is why the NAME Jesus qualifies as the singular name to be used in baptism. This is why the Apostles used only the saving name of Jesus when they baptized. They were not being a bunch of rebellious fishermen who were ignoring Jesus the moment He returned to heaven. Jesus spent 40 days with them after His resurection expanding their understanding of scripture. They knew and understood without a doubt who Jesus is. Thomas called Him, "My Lord and my God." They declared that Jesus is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. Lord (Adoni) was a substitute word used by the Jews whenever they read the YHWH tetramagration that represented the personal name of God. Jesus is the name above every other name and at the name of Jesus every knee shall bow and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is LORD.
As to the thief on the cross, Jesus said that while he was on the earth He had the power to forgive sins. The thief on the cross confessed and repented and went directly to Jesus and called upon Him for forgiveness. Jesus granted it. The New Testament was not yet given because Jesus had not yet died. There were many Old Testament saints who died before God sent John the Baptist and they were certainly not all lost. Did you know that the Jews practiced a form of ritual baptism in their temple worship? Since the thief on the cross was a Jew, he must have at some point in his life participated in the Jewish ceremonial bath of cleansing.
It could also be argued that the thief is an exception to the rule allowed by Jesus in His mercy. As with most exception to rules, they are allowed only in extreme circumstances, but under normal circumstances you should not make the exception the rule. Here is an extreme example. I used to be a firefighter. If I was responding to a fire alarm I was allowed to break certain traffic laws. I could exceed the normal speed limits under certain circumstances, I could drive on the wrong side of the road or down the middle of the road to bypass other traffic, I could even drive the wrong way up a one way street in order to position my fire engine to fight the fire. Under normal circumstances if I tried to do any of those things without my big red truck, with lights and sirens going, the cops would take me to jail.
A refusal to obey God when you have been given chance after chance to believe and obey is going to be taken into account when He asks why someone did not get baptized.
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can i get background on mark 4:35-41 |
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Mark
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Greetings cogic1974!
I have many sources..
"4:35 the other side. The E side of the Sea of Galilee.
4:37 Violent storms often occurred because the valleys descending to the lake (700 ft, or 213 m, below sea level) acted like wind tunnels.
4:41 They became very much afraid. The disciples were rebuked (v. 40) for being “afraid” (lit., cowardly). In verse 41 the word afraid refers to reverential, respectful awe for the Lord. In exclaiming, Who then is this, though not yet comprehending fully, they acknowledged that He was greater than they thought." (Ryrie Study Bible)
"4:35 To cross over the Sea of Galilee, a lake only eight miles wide, would not seem difficult at first glance. Yet its unique geography produces a greatly varying climate. The lake is situated seven hundred feet below sea level and is surrounded by mountains that rise three to four thousand feet above sea level on the west, north, and east. Tropical conditions prevail around the lake’s surface, where even bananas are grown today. Yet the higher elevations can produce chilling night air.
4:37 It is not unusual even today for a sudden great windstorm to appear on the Sea of Galilee during the evening hours. The warm tropical air from the lake’s surface rises and meets the colder air from the nearby hills. The resulting turbulence stirs up great waves which make boating extremely treacherous.
4:38 The mention of Jesus being asleep on a pillow shows His true humanity. He was fully human and needed food and rest just as all people do.
4:39 Jesus’ command over the wind and the sea demonstrates His full and complete deity. Only God the Creator can calm wind and sea.
4:41 Mark uses the disciples’ question “Who can this be?” to evoke a similar response in the minds of his readers. Mark relates the works and words of the one he calls “Jesus Christ, the Son of God” (1:1)." (The Nelson NKJV Study Bible)
"4:35-37. The vivid details indicate that Mark recorded an eyewitness report, probably from Peter. On the evening of that day of teaching by the lake (cf. v. 1), Jesus took the initiative and decided to cross over to the other (east) side of the Sea of Galilee with His 12 disciples. Though not stated, He probably desired relief from the crowds and rest. Perhaps also He sought a new sphere of ministry (cf. 1:38). Even so, other boats, carrying those who wanted to remain with Jesus, tagged along.
His disciples, several of them experienced fishermen, took charge of the voyage. The words, just as He was, refer back to 4:1 and link Jesus’ teaching in a boat with His miracle-work in a boat (cf. the disciples’ address, “Teacher,” v. 38).
The journey was interrupted by a sudden furious squall, common on this lake, surrounded by high hills and narrow valleys that functioned as wind tunnels. A storm in the evening was especially dangerous, and on this occasion the boisterous waves broke over (lit., “kept spilling over into”) the boat so that it was nearly swamped.
4:38-39. Exhausted from a full day of teaching, Jesus was sleeping in the stern, on a sailor’s leather rowing cushion. The panic-stricken disciples woke Him with a cry of reproach (cf. 5:31; 6:37; 8:4, 32) at His apparent indifference to their situation. Though they called Him Teacher (Gr. for the Heb. Rabbi), they did not yet understand His teaching.
Jesus rebuked (lit., “ordered”; cf. 1:25) the wind and said to the waves, “Be silent! Be muzzled and remain so!” (the force of the Gr. perf. Tense, ) This verb, “be muzzled,” was somewhat of a technical term for dispossessing a demon of his power (cf. 1:25) and may suggest that Jesus recognized demonic powers behind the ferocious storm. But at His command the wind stopped and the lake became completely calm.
4:40-41. Jesus rebuked His disciples for being afraid (, “cowardly fear”) in a crisis. Despite Jesus’ tutoring (vv. 11, 34) it still had not dawned on them that God’s authority and power were present in Jesus. This is what He meant by His second question, Do you still have no faith? (cf. 7:18; 8:17-21, 33; 9:19)
In stilling the storm Jesus assumed the authority exercised only by God in the Old Testament (cf. Pss. 89:8-9; 104:5-9; 106:8-9; 107:23-32). That is why the disciples were terrified (lit., “feared a great fear”) when they saw that even the forces of nature did obey Him. The verb “terrified” (from , “have awe;” cf. , “cowardly fear,” in Mark 4:40) refers to a reverence that overtakes people in the presence of supernatural power (cf. 16:8). However, their question to one another, Who is this? indicated that they did not fully comprehend the significance of it all." (NIV Bible Knowledge Commentary: NT)
These are just a few of my sources.. Please write me through e-mail at nkeck98@yahoo.com if you would like to have more on Mark 4:35-41..
Blessings,
Nolan
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Advise on contradictions found in bible |
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Not Specified
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Hi folks,
Someone sent me the mail below, please advise on the supposed contradictions in the bible.
Thanks.
Benjibabs.
These are some of the contradictions -or could be- that I found in
the Holy Bible and I would really like to know why are they so?
Sorry, I didn't type in the verses word for word but you can refer to
them from your Bible.
--------------------------
[Mathew 1:16] Joseph the carpenter is the son of Jacob.
[Luke 3:23] Joseph the carpenter is the son of He'-li.
*****************
[1 Corinthians 15:5] Jesus appeared to the twelve after he rose again.
[Mathew 28:16] Jesus appeared to the eleven after he rose again.
******************
[Mathew 19:28] You which followed me in the regeneration, when the
son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, you shall also sit
upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
[John 6:70] Have I not chosen you twelve, and one of you is a DEVIL?!
*******************
[John 8:14] If I bear record of myself, yet my record is true.
[John 5:31] If I bear witness of myself, my witness is not true.
*******************
[Luke 5:1] The story of the fishermen happened at the beginning of
Jesus's mission. (See also Mathew 4:18)
[John 21:1] The story of the fishermen happened after Jesus was
resurrected from the dead.
********************
[Mathew 21:18] Jesus purified the temple from the sellers before he
passed by the fig tree which he cursed.
[Mark 11:12] Jesus purified the temple from the sellers after he
passed by the fig tree which he cursed.
*********************
[2 Samuel 24:1] God provoked David against Israel, and said: Go and
number them.
[1 Chronicles 21:1] Satan provoked David against Israel and ordered
him to go and number Israel.
*******************
[2 Samuel 10:18] David slew seven hundred chariots of the Syrians.
[1 Chronicles 19:18] David slew seven thousand chariots of the
Syrians.
*******************
- Here are some of the contradictory narrations that I found about
the crucifixion:
[Mark 15:25] It was the third hour, and they crucified him.
[John 19:14] It was the sixth hour, and he was not crucified yet.
*******************
[Mathew 27:32] They compelled Simon to bear the cross of Jesus. (see
also Luke 23:26 and Mark 15:21)
[John 19:17] Jesus was bearing his cross himself.
********************
[Mark 15:21] They put Jesus on the cross.
[1 Peter 2:24] They put Jesus on the tree. (See also Galatians 3:13)
********************
[Mark 15:23] They gave him wine mingled with myrrh to drink.
[Mathew 7:34] They gave him vinegar mingled with gall to drink.
*********************
[Mathew 27:44] The two thieves who were crucified with him were
insulting him.
[Luke 23:39] One of the thieves was reviling Jesus, and the other
rebuked him saying: Do not you fear God?... And then he said to
Jesus: Remember me when you come to your Kingdom. Jesus said to
him, "Verily I say unto you, today you shall be with me in Paradise."
*********************
[Mathew 27:5] Judas went and hanged himself.
[Acts 1:18] Judas fell headlong, and burst asunder in the midst, and
all his bowels gushed out.
**********************
[John 20:1] The visitors to Jesus's grave: Mary Mag-da-le-ne only.
[Mathew 28:1] Mary Mag-da-le-ne and another Mary.
[Luke 24:10] Mary Mag-da-le-ne and another Mary and Jo'-an-na.
[Mark 16:1] Mary Mag-da-le-ne3 and another Mary and Sa-lo'-me.
***********************
[John 20:12] One woman saw two angels at the grave of Jesus.
[Mathew 28:2] Two women saw one angel.
[Luke 24:3] Three women saw two men.
[Mark 16:5] Three women saw one man.
**********************
[Luke 24:9] Mary the Mag-da-le-ne and Mary the mother of James and
Jo'-an-na returned back from the grave and told the eleven apostles
all of what they saw.
[Mark 16:8] Mary Mag-da-le-ne and another Mary and Sa-lo'-me returned
back from the grave and did not tell anyone anything because they
were afraid.
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Advise on contradictions found in bible |
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Ps 25:4
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Hi folks,
Someone sent me the mail below, please advise on the supposed contradictions in the bible.
Thanks.
Benjibabs.
These are some of the contradictions -or could be- that I found in
the Holy Bible and I would really like to know why are they so?
Sorry, I didn't type in the verses word for word but you can refer to
them from your Bible.
--------------------------
[Mathew 1:16] Joseph the carpenter is the son of Jacob.
[Luke 3:23] Joseph the carpenter is the son of He'-li.
*****************
[1 Corinthians 15:5] Jesus appeared to the twelve after he rose again.
[Mathew 28:16] Jesus appeared to the eleven after he rose again.
******************
[Mathew 19:28] You which followed me in the regeneration, when the
son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, you shall also sit
upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
[John 6:70] Have I not chosen you twelve, and one of you is a DEVIL?!
*******************
[John 8:14] If I bear record of myself, yet my record is true.
[John 5:31] If I bear witness of myself, my witness is not true.
*******************
[Luke 5:1] The story of the fishermen happened at the beginning of
Jesus's mission. (See also Mathew 4:18)
[John 21:1] The story of the fishermen happened after Jesus was
resurrected from the dead.
********************
[Mathew 21:18] Jesus purified the temple from the sellers before he
passed by the fig tree which he cursed.
[Mark 11:12] Jesus purified the temple from the sellers after he
passed by the fig tree which he cursed.
*********************
[2 Samuel 24:1] God provoked David against Israel, and said: Go and
number them.
[1 Chronicles 21:1] Satan provoked David against Israel and ordered
him to go and number Israel.
*******************
[2 Samuel 10:18] David slew seven hundred chariots of the Syrians.
[1 Chronicles 19:18] David slew seven thousand chariots of the
Syrians.
*******************
- Here are some of the contradictory narrations that I found about
the crucifixion:
[Mark 15:25] It was the third hour, and they crucified him.
[John 19:14] It was the sixth hour, and he was not crucified yet.
*******************
[Mathew 27:32] They compelled Simon to bear the cross of Jesus. (see
also Luke 23:26 and Mark 15:21)
[John 19:17] Jesus was bearing his cross himself.
********************
[Mark 15:21] They put Jesus on the cross.
[1 Peter 2:24] They put Jesus on the tree. (See also Galatians 3:13)
********************
[Mark 15:23] They gave him wine mingled with myrrh to drink.
[Mathew 7:34] They gave him vinegar mingled with gall to drink.
*********************
[Mathew 27:44] The two thieves who were crucified with him were
insulting him.
[Luke 23:39] One of the thieves was reviling Jesus, and the other
rebuked him saying: Do not you fear God?... And then he said to
Jesus: Remember me when you come to your Kingdom. Jesus said to
him, "Verily I say unto you, today you shall be with me in Paradise."
*********************
[Mathew 27:5] Judas went and hanged himself.
[Acts 1:18] Judas fell headlong, and burst asunder in the midst, and
all his bowels gushed out.
**********************
[John 20:1] The visitors to Jesus's grave: Mary Mag-da-le-ne only.
[Mathew 28:1] Mary Mag-da-le-ne and another Mary.
[Luke 24:10] Mary Mag-da-le-ne and another Mary and Jo'-an-na.
[Mark 16:1] Mary Mag-da-le-ne3 and another Mary and Sa-lo'-me.
***********************
[John 20:12] One woman saw two angels at the grave of Jesus.
[Mathew 28:2] Two women saw one angel.
[Luke 24:3] Three women saw two men.
[Mark 16:5] Three women saw one man.
**********************
[Luke 24:9] Mary the Mag-da-le-ne and Mary the mother of James and
Jo'-an-na returned back from the grave and told the eleven apostles
all of what they saw.
[Mark 16:8] Mary Mag-da-le-ne and another Mary and Sa-lo'-me returned
back from the grave and did not tell anyone anything because they
were afraid.
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Advise on contradictions found in bible |
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Ps 25:4
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Dear Benjibabs,
Greetings from Yokohama in Jesus' name!
Friend, the 'contradictions' listed in your question are commonly used 'darts of doubt,' and virtually every one of them can be dealt with simply by looking at the context.
I guess the first thing I must ask is what do you think? Did you open your Bible and read the passages and the surrounding context? Do you think these are valid contradictions? Is the 'someone' that sent you this list a Christian? What was the purpose of sending it to you?
I could go to the bother of reading these passages and outlining the context for you, and I several books that explains the 'contradictions' of the Bible, and I could quote from them.
But what is your heart? Are you 'receiving' this list? Or do you believe that the Bible is the Word of God? Rather than say, "The guys at the Bible Forum said...," I think it is better for you to say I read the Bible, and I believe it is true! If after a few hours of reading the context of these verses you still think there are contradictions, ask again, and I am sure that the saints will be happy to answer you.
Open your Bible, and the Lord will lead you to the Answer.
In Christ Jesus, charis |
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Advise on contradictions found in bible |
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Bible general Archive 1
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Hi folks,
Someone sent me the mail below, please advise on the supposed contradictions in the bible.
Thanks.
Benjibabs.
These are some of the contradictions -or could be- that I found in
the Holy Bible and I would really like to know why are they so?
Sorry, I didn't type in the verses word for word but you can refer to
them from your Bible.
--------------------------
[Mathew 1:16] Joseph the carpenter is the son of Jacob.
[Luke 3:23] Joseph the carpenter is the son of He'-li.
*****************
[1 Corinthians 15:5] Jesus appeared to the twelve after he rose again.
[Mathew 28:16] Jesus appeared to the eleven after he rose again.
******************
[Mathew 19:28] You which followed me in the regeneration, when the
son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, you shall also sit
upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
[John 6:70] Have I not chosen you twelve, and one of you is a DEVIL?!
*******************
[John 8:14] If I bear record of myself, yet my record is true.
[John 5:31] If I bear witness of myself, my witness is not true.
*******************
[Luke 5:1] The story of the fishermen happened at the beginning of
Jesus's mission. (See also Mathew 4:18)
[John 21:1] The story of the fishermen happened after Jesus was
resurrected from the dead.
********************
[Mathew 21:18] Jesus purified the temple from the sellers before he
passed by the fig tree which he cursed.
[Mark 11:12] Jesus purified the temple from the sellers after he
passed by the fig tree which he cursed.
*********************
[2 Samuel 24:1] God provoked David against Israel, and said: Go and
number them.
[1 Chronicles 21:1] Satan provoked David against Israel and ordered
him to go and number Israel.
*******************
[2 Samuel 10:18] David slew seven hundred chariots of the Syrians.
[1 Chronicles 19:18] David slew seven thousand chariots of the
Syrians.
*******************
- Here are some of the contradictory narrations that I found about
the crucifixion:
[Mark 15:25] It was the third hour, and they crucified him.
[John 19:14] It was the sixth hour, and he was not crucified yet.
*******************
[Mathew 27:32] They compelled Simon to bear the cross of Jesus. (see
also Luke 23:26 and Mark 15:21)
[John 19:17] Jesus was bearing his cross himself.
********************
[Mark 15:21] They put Jesus on the cross.
[1 Peter 2:24] They put Jesus on the tree. (See also Galatians 3:13)
********************
[Mark 15:23] They gave him wine mingled with myrrh to drink.
[Mathew 7:34] They gave him vinegar mingled with gall to drink.
*********************
[Mathew 27:44] The two thieves who were crucified with him were
insulting him.
[Luke 23:39] One of the thieves was reviling Jesus, and the other
rebuked him saying: Do not you fear God?... And then he said to
Jesus: Remember me when you come to your Kingdom. Jesus said to
him, "Verily I say unto you, today you shall be with me in Paradise."
*********************
[Mathew 27:5] Judas went and hanged himself.
[Acts 1:18] Judas fell headlong, and burst asunder in the midst, and
all his bowels gushed out.
**********************
[John 20:1] The visitors to Jesus's grave: Mary Mag-da-le-ne only.
[Mathew 28:1] Mary Mag-da-le-ne and another Mary.
[Luke 24:10] Mary Mag-da-le-ne and another Mary and Jo'-an-na.
[Mark 16:1] Mary Mag-da-le-ne3 and another Mary and Sa-lo'-me.
***********************
[John 20:12] One woman saw two angels at the grave of Jesus.
[Mathew 28:2] Two women saw one angel.
[Luke 24:3] Three women saw two men.
[Mark 16:5] Three women saw one man.
**********************
[Luke 24:9] Mary the Mag-da-le-ne and Mary the mother of James and
Jo'-an-na returned back from the grave and told the eleven apostles
all of what they saw.
[Mark 16:8] Mary Mag-da-le-ne and another Mary and Sa-lo'-me returned
back from the grave and did not tell anyone anything because they
were afraid.
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Advise on contradictions found in bible |
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Bible general Archive 1
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Dear Benjibabs,
I appreciate that you are wanting to help the person who sent you these questions. I also believe that there are definite explanations for each of these "appearant contradictions".
However, since there are so many of them, would you mind splitting this into several questions with only one or two "contradictions" in each one? I think that would help to keep the threads from getting overly long and complicated.
I will share my thoughts on the first one about the lineage of Jesus' father Joseph. I have not studied this, but something just jumped out at me.
I would guess that Jacob was Joseph's father and He'-li is Joseph's mother. If you look at those two geneologies, they both trace back to king David, but are completely different from there on.
The Matthew account goes through king David's son Solomon. The Luke account goes through king David's son Nathan. I think the message that God has for us is that Jesus was a descendant of king David. In addition, it is interesting that this is true even in more than one branch of His family tree. |
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What does Matthew 24: 28 mean? |
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Matt 24:28
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Dear Tim, religious leaders considered His Holiness the Christ to be 'unorthodox'. Prophecies were being fulfilled all around them during His Ministry, yet they saw those fulfillments as 'unorthodox'. Examples: turning over the tables of the money-changers in the Temple and chasing them out of the Temple with a whip. The Holy Bible records that event as a fulfillment of Holy Prophecy. After that event, how many Jewish leaders do you suppose stood up and said: 'Surely this One must be the Messiah!' No doubt they viewed Him as a vandal, not the Messiah, and certainly unorthodox. You and I well know that He was orthodox, however.
Some were suggesting or stating that He was the Messiah, yet the Priests were responding with the teaching that "Elijah must come first." Those Priests spoke the truth with respect to that prophecy of course. They viewed Him therefore as 'unorthodox'. Yet neither they nor the disciples of the Lord had discerned that 'Elijah' had in fact already come in the person of John the immerser. In fact, not any person on Earth knew that Truth except the Lord Himself, until the day He revealed that Truth to His disciples after descending from the mount of Transfiguration. Most Jews alive during His Ministry died believing that He was 'unorthodox' in the manner of His appearance, because they continued to believe until their death that Elijah had not come first.
They believed that the Messiah would establish His Kingdom at His appearance. They believed that it was 'unorthodox' for Him to die on a cross 'instead', apparently having accomplished little or nothing towards establishing an Administration over the Earth.
They believed it was 'unorthodox' for Him to heal on the sabbath, and to permit His disciples to pick corn on the sabbath. He had not passed through their schools of Divinity, so as to receive the approval of their 'scholars' and yet He was teaching with Authority--very 'unorthodox' from their viewpoint. His disciples were mostly illiterate fishermen and the like, many with the very despised accent of the Nazarenes, a very 'unorthodox' manner to usher in a new Revelation from the viewpoint of Jewish leaders and 'scholars'.
Later on, the chosen vessel, Paul, continued that apparently 'unorthodox' approach, evident by the fact that he was whipped six times forty lashes less one because of the message He was carrying into Jewish synagogues. Most or all of the apostles of the Lord and many other disciples were martyred because they were viewed as 'unorthodox'.
Concerning Holy Scripture outside of the Bible, the Holy Bible itself often refers to Scripture outside of itself. The Book of Jude quotes from Holy Scripture outside of the Bible. How did the Zoroastrian Priests know to follow the star, a journey of months over desolate, rugged terrain? How did they know that it was "His star" as they are recorded to mention in the Holy Bible? How did they know that He would be born "King of the Jews"? How did they know to take the specific and very significantly symbolic gifts of gold, frankinsence and myyrh? Gold--the Truth He would teach, frankinsence--His life of prayer, myrrh, the embalming fluid to signify His sacrificial death. They identified Him as the Messiah--the Promised One of their Holy Scriptures also, by the gifts which they left for Him. They wer faithfully waiting for that star, and their Holy Writings told them exactly what to do when they saw it. They did so, and the Holy Bible records the fulfillment. That the Holy Spirit would descend in the form of a dove upon Him is not prophesied in the Bible. The fullfilment is recorded in the Bible. It is prophesied in the Zoroastrian Scriptures and its fulfillment was an important sign for them to identify their Promised One. Why do you think they rejoiced so much when they saw the star? They very well knew that they were experiencing the privelege of specifically sharing in the fulfillment of Holy Prophecy, that is why they rejoiced. There were likely a number of caravans in convoy, or laden camels, perhaps with wives and children, perhaps even armed guards for the journey, because they caught the attention of the border guards and ended up uin Herod's Palace. The Romans governing Israel at that time had just experienced a few armed uprisings by false Messiahs, such as Judas of Galilee, as mentioned in the Book of Acts, so they would be alert. we know of course that Herod attempted to trick them into betraying the child, and an angel from God warned them to return by another route on their way back to Persia. They doubtless returned rejoicing that they had fully accomplished their small share in identifying the Messiah and fulfilling Holy Prophecy. That alone is an immense eternal reward. No-one can take it from them.
Our Christ is the Same One from Almighty God's viewpoint, as explained in the Kitab-i-Iqan (The Book of Certitude)
Cordially,
Ross |
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You shall not Murder, then told too?? |
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OT general
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I'm thinking we may be at an impasse here. However, I've really enjoyed the discourse, and friendly "debate" on the Word can only serve to make us stronger. It could very well be that my thoughts on this passage are "off" and I am looking for justification for self-defense in an area of scripture that was not meant for this purpose. However, I feel that taking this passage along with several others (and particularly when you do not discount the Old Testament), there is ample evidence for justified self-defense.
I will remain adamant, however, that our Lord would not, and even could not, advocate the sin of breaking both the 6th and the 8th commandments in the taking of "necessities" by force with a sword. (2 Corinthians 5:21) If there is a commentary that is advocating this position, then I say we hold that commentary to the light of scripture to see whether to trust the commentary or not. This type of behaviour would be contradictory to the character and sinless nature of our Lord as is spelled out explicitly in scripture.
One thought to always keep in mind....scripture is infallible and profitable for reproof and doctrine (2 Timothy 3:16). However, commentaries on the scripture are simply men's opinions, albeit based on other scriptures. We need to sharpen our own Word skills so as to "rightly divide the Word of truth" (2 Timothy 2:15) without relying entirely on the interpretations and opinions of other mere mortals.
BTW - On the issue of the disciples hiding after the death of Jesus before the resurrection, it shows they had a fear of the government, in that the government may come after them next. I'd be the first to agree that 12 guys and two swords would be no match for the entire Roman army, headed by Ceaser himself. :-) But I think the case can be made that the common thief or criminal would have a hard time attacking a group of twelve men with two swords, especially when several of these guys were fishermen (manual, muscle building labor).
Anyway, I've enjoyed this, and if you'd like to keep at a for a while, I'm game. Otherwise, we can walk away and "agree to disagree." |
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Did the disciples have a choice? |
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Not Specified
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Did the disciples have a choice?
Jesus, who commands all nature and created the universe with His command, commanded Peter and Andrew, James and John, Matthew, and Levi "Follow Me"
Did they have a choice? All the angels and even the demons must obey His command. They have no choice. Did the disciples?
Matthew 4:18 And Jesus, walking by the Sea of Galilee, saw two brothers, Simon called Peter, and Andrew his brother, casting a net into the sea; for they were fishermen. 19 Then He said to them, "Follow Me, and I will make you fishers of men." 20 They immediately left their nets and followed Him.
21 Going on from there, He saw two other brothers, James the son of Zebedee, and John his brother, in the boat with Zebedee their father, mending their nets. He called them, 22 and immediately they left the boat and their father, and followed Him.
Matthew 9:9 As Jesus passed on from there, He saw a man named Matthew sitting at the tax office. And He said to him, "Follow Me." So he arose and followed Him.
Mark 2:14 As He passed by, He saw Levi the son of Alphaeus sitting at the tax office. And He said to him, "Follow Me." So he arose and followed Him.
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Did the disciples have a choice? |
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John 15:16
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Did the disciples have a choice?
Jesus, who commands all nature and created the universe with His command, commanded Peter and Andrew, James and John, Matthew, and Levi "Follow Me"
Did they have a choice? All the angels and even the demons must obey His command. They have no choice. Did the disciples?
Matthew 4:18 And Jesus, walking by the Sea of Galilee, saw two brothers, Simon called Peter, and Andrew his brother, casting a net into the sea; for they were fishermen. 19 Then He said to them, "Follow Me, and I will make you fishers of men." 20 They immediately left their nets and followed Him.
21 Going on from there, He saw two other brothers, James the son of Zebedee, and John his brother, in the boat with Zebedee their father, mending their nets. He called them, 22 and immediately they left the boat and their father, and followed Him.
Matthew 9:9 As Jesus passed on from there, He saw a man named Matthew sitting at the tax office. And He said to him, "Follow Me." So he arose and followed Him.
Mark 2:14 As He passed by, He saw Levi the son of Alphaeus sitting at the tax office. And He said to him, "Follow Me." So he arose and followed Him.
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Did the disciples have a choice? |
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John 15:16
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Scripture ... Matt 22:1-14; Luke 18:18-30; John 15:16 ...
Greetings Greg Martin,
God started the choice process ... but, the 12 still had to make a choice as well. They are not robots to do what He wants. This is true for us and the angels.
Hope this helps, Seacrcher |
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so, you're saying that they go to hell? |
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Bible general Archive 1
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TRINITY...
The CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA claims: A Dogma so mysterious presupposes a Divine revelation." Catholic Scholars Karl Rahner and Herbert Vorgrimler state in their Theological Dictionary: "The Trinity is a mystery...in the strict sense...which could not be known without revelation, and even after revelation cannot become wholly intelligible." However, contending that the Trinity is such a confusing mystery, it must have come from divine revelation creates another major problem. Why? Because Divine revelation itself does not allow of such a view of God: "God is not a God of confusion."- 1Corinthians 14:33, Revised Standard Version (RS)
Now, would God be responsible for a doctrine about himself that is so confusing that even Hebrew, Greek and Latin Scholars cannot really explain it?
Why did so few of the educated Jewish religious leaders recognize Jesus as the Messiah? His faithful disciples were, instead, humble farmers, fishermen, tax collectors, housewives. Those common people were so certain of what Jesus taught about God that they could teach it to others and were even willing to die for their belief.-Mathew 15:1-9; 21:23-32,43 23:13-36
John 7:45-49;Acts 4:13
ENCYCLOPEDIA OF RELIGION: There is no evidence of any sacred writer even suspected the existance of the Trinity, it is to go beyond the words and intent of the sacred writers.
Trinity:
How did the Doctrine develop? Many think it formulated at the Council of Nicaea in 325 C.E. Not totally correct. It did lay the ground work for later trinitarian theology, but at that council there was no mention of the Holy Spirit being part of a godhead. Many years went by and lots of arguments on trying to develop the idea that Jesus was God. To try to solve the dispute, Roman Emperor Constantine summoned all Bishops to Nicaea[*Constantine was a PAGAN politician who worshiped the unconquered sun,converted to a christian when he got older and was baptized when he was dying] 300, a fraction of the total,
actually attended. THE ENCYCLOPAEDIA BRITANNICA relates: Constantine himself presided, actively guiding the discussions, and personally proposed...the crucial formula expressing the relation of Christ to God in the Creed issued by the council, of one substance with the Father...Overawed by the Emperor, the Bishops ,with 2 exceptions only, signed the creed, many of them much against their inclination. After 2 months of furious religious debate, this pagan politician intervened and decided in favor of those that said Jesus was God. But Why? Constantine understood that the religious division was a threat to his Empire, and he wanted to solidify his domain. None of the Bishops at Nicaea promoted a trinity, however. They decided on the nature of Jesus and not the role of the Holy Spirit. Debates continued for decades. Emperor Theodosius was in charge now [so to speak] He established the creed of the council at Nicaea as the standard for his realm and convened the council of Constantinople in 381 C.E. to clarify the formula. That council agreed to place the Holy spirit on the same level as God and Christ. For the first time Christendom's Trinity began to come into focus. Was Theodosious a Godly person? Many opposed what was happening, Theodosious decided against them and they suffered violent persecution. It was only in later centuries the Trinity was formulated into set creeds. It was defined more fully with the Athanasian creed. Athanasius was a CLERGYMAN who supported Constantine at Nicaea. However
Athanasius did not compose this creed. The creed was unknown to the Eastern church until the 12th century. Scholars in the 17th century had agreed that the creed was not written by Athanasius(died373)but was composed in southern France during the 5th century as well as being influenced there and in Spain in the 6th and 7th centuries and was used in the Liturgy in the Church in Germany in the 9th century and later on in Rome.
Jesus and his followers spoke of an Apostasy with its "LAWLESS CLERGY CLASS." 2Peter 2:1; 1John4:1-3
Jude 3,4 (Acts 20:29,30 JB) (2Timothy4:3,4 JB)
Throughout the Ancient world as far back as Babylonia, the worship of pagan gods grouped in threes, or triads was common. The influence was also prevalent in Egypt, Greece and Rome in Centuries before during and after Christ. In the preface to EDWARD GIBSONS HISTORY OF CHRISTIANITY, we read, if Paganism was conquered by christianity, it is equally true that Christianity was corrupted by Paganism.
THE ENCYCLOPAEDIA OF RELIGION and ETHICS notes: "In Indian Religion, e,g.,we meet with the
trinitarian group of Brahma, Siva, and Visnu; and in Egyptian religion with the trinitarian group of Osiris, Isis, and Horus...nor is it only historical religions that we find God viewed as a Trinity. *You can do the research, its endless.
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Any Great Commission explanations? |
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Matt 28:16
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16 Then the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mountain where Jesus had told them to go.
17 When they saw him, they worshiped him; but some doubted.
18 Then Jesus came to them and said, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.
19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in [1] the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age."
The eleven disciples,( originally 12 for Judas died, hanging himself on a tree see Acts 1:15-19)was called by Jesus to go to the place he asked them to. This was the last words of Jesus before he was taken up to heaven which mattered significantly to God. For example if a person died his last words are the most significant and important for the other person to fulfill. Now this is God's command on verse 19"Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in [1] the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you." What does Jesus want everybody to become? DISCIPLES
What does being Jesus' disciple mean? Does the word Christian and Disciple have the same meaning?
The word "Christian" only appears three times in the New Testament. It was the name those in the world gave the disciples (Acts 11:19-26), seven years after the church began. Jesus used the term disciple throughout his ministry. The term DISCIPLE appears 270 times in the new testament. He came to make Disciples and only disciples will be saved.
To understand this verse more clearly, we need to look at the meaning of what it means to be a DISCIPLE OF JESUS.
In Mark 1:14-18
Calling of the first disciples
"Come follow me (Christ).
...make you fishers of men"-Jesus gave these first disciples the real purpose for living.
They left everything they had (family, career for they were fishermen) and they have an immediate heart for God.
To be a disciple there is a cost that we need to count. In Luke 9:23-26
If any man... want to follow Jesus he must deny himself. Our perfect example is Christ in the garden (Matthew 26:36-39, "Not my will, but your will.") Don't give in to moods. We need to do God's will before our desires and wants.
Carry the cross-daily.
Gain world ... forfeit soul. Lose your life for Jesus ... save it.
Also in Luke 14:25-33
If any man...
Count the cost (vv. 28-30).
Consider the alternatives (vv. 31-32).
Love Christ more than any person (v. 26).
Persecutions (v. 27)
We need to give up everything, not just anything (v. 33)
As disciples of Jesus, we must learn to pray-disciples saw the strength Jesus received from the Father.
It is a daily personal relationship with God (v. 3). (See Luke 11:1-4)
Disciples must love one another, John 13:34-35.
This passage of scripture is a command given to all (All Nations wether african american, caucasian, asian, latino etc.) We must learn how to become disciples of Jesus first and we need some teaching us even after we were baptized into Christ (v.20 "teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you). It is God's perfect plan to evangelize and save the lost in the world.
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