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For debate purposes only |
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Gen 6:4
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Yes, I agree with JVM that the 'sons' of God were from the line of Seth who intermarried with the daughters of Cain. I respect granma's position on this, though, because my roommate in college had the same view: that the sons in Gen. 6:4 were angels. But I am a firm believer that the 'fall' of Lucifer and his angels was not in this episode, but much earlier when Lucifer rebelled in heaven because of his envy of God's Throne. I just added the mention of the Nephilim to stir up a discussion, I knew it was not referring to the Dinosaurs even though I believe that the Dinosaurs ARE mentioned in the Bible. And the Zondervan NASB Study Bible is a very good Bible by the way, the same one that I own and use! |
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Woman head covering valid for today? |
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1 Cor 11:10
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Dear Dave, your Christian humility that so clearly comes through in your question should be the envy of us all who call ourselves Christian. My heart is touched by it. Now, to your question. The clear point the apostle Paul is making in these verses to the church at Corinth embraces a theme far more extensive that wearing or not wearing head covers. In the culture of Corinth the covered head of the woman during worship was a symbol of her subordinate relationship to her husband. The apostle is not laying down an absolute law for women to wear head coverings in all churches for all time. In the Corinthian church of Paul's time, it would have been a sign of a wife's rebellion against her husband's divinely directed role in the marriage relationship for her to show up at a worship service with her head unadorned by a veil or other covering. The issue then is not head coverings per se. The broader issue is obedience to God's commands. In other cultures of Paul's day wearing head coverings or not would have been a moot issue because it held no symbolism for them. The same holds true today. A wife wearing a hat in a church in Chicago may have a good relationship with her husband, but a wife sitting bare-headed in the next pew may have an even better one. In our culture, the hat has no symbolic meaning; it says nothing. But it did to the Corinthians at the time Paul wrote this letter to them. It is the symbolic meaning, not the hat, that Paul is addressing. Hank. |
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Sons of God cannot be angels in Gen 6:4 |
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Gen 6:4
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The problem with interpreting 'sons of God' as angels in Genesis 6:4 stems not from Job 4:18, but with the fall of satan and his unholy angels itself. Angels are referred to in Jude 6-7 with Sodom and Gomorrah, but the 'gross immorality' with 'strange flesh' is not at all referring to angels here but to Sodom and Gomorrah- both cities that practiced homosexuality (Gen. 19:5). Angels are referred to in 2 Peter 2:4-5 which explains how the angels fell from grace, speaking of a once and for all judgment on the unholy angels. Now are angels permitted to continually sin to this day? I don't think so. If you also believe that angels cannot perpetually sin, then you also believe that satan and his angels fell ONCE from grace, that there was ONE time when iniquity was found in the angelic realm. Now the first recorded sin that we know of in history occurred in Genesis 3:6-7. If you believe that satan and his angels fell from grace only once, then he had to have already fallen from grace with his unholy angels at this time or THIS occurrence itself is the fall of satan and his angels- by enticing mankind to sin. Support for this view can be found in Ezekiel 28:12-18 where it is thought to refer to the fall of satan here. Also, Isaiah 14:12-15 is also recited as referring to the fall of satan. In verse 13 (and in the passage in Ezekiel), this is referring to a sin of 'haughtiness' and exultation rather than the sin of lust. Haughtiness is a sin of the spirit whereas lust is a sin of the flesh. This explains how the angels cannot be given in marriage (Matt. 22:30), but were susceptible to the sin of pride at one time and one time only. (their fall) Now if the first recorded sin is in Gen. 3:6 then how can Gen. 6:4 be referring to angels if they had already fallen from grace? There was a considerable amount of time between Gen. 3:6 and 6:4. I believe that since the angels were not given fleshly bodies then they would not be able to commit a sin of the flesh, since our deliverance from the sins of the flesh is a mystery to angels! (1 Peter 1:12). This is why I believe that they had to commit a sin of the spirit, and that sin being pride, with satan as their leader (Isaiah 14:13). For it was out of pride and envy that satan rebelled against God- to have His throne, and it was also out of envy that the Scribes and the Pharisees handed Jesus over to be crucified (Matt 27:18). When satan fell, he took a third of the angels of heaven with him (Rev. 12:4, 7-9). satan and his angels did not do this out of lust for the daughters of men, but because of their rebellion against God. So in result, the fall of satan and his angels had long occurred by the time of Genesis 6:4, when the line of Seth (the "Seed" in Gen. 4:25-26), who began to call upon the name of the Lord, began to intermarry with the daughters of men, being led astray by their own fleshly lust in Genesis 6:4. This is the reason why the 'sons of God' refers to the line of Seth rather than the angels of heaven. Note: I have chosen not to glorify the name of 'satan' to the point of violating grammatical rules.. |
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Are the Seven Deadly Sins in the Bible? |
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Prov 6:16
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Are the Seven Deadly Sins mentioned in the Bible? The Seven Deadly Sins are Pride, Greed, Envy, Anger, Lust, Gluttony, and Sloth. I believe that they are mentioned in the Bible, but not all together in one place. Proverbs 6:16 comes the closest to mentioning 'Seven Deadly Sins'.. I believe that each one is independently condemned in the Bible at least once.. Pride (1 Pet. 5:5), Greed (1 Tim. 6:10), Envy (Rom. 13:13), Anger (Eph. 4:31), Lust (Matt. 5:28), Gluttony (Prov. 23:20-21), and Sloth (Prov. 18:9).. Is every sin that man commits an 'offshoot' or can be traced back to one of these basic, deadly sins? It is also argued that the counterparts for the Seven Deadly Sins are Humility (Phil. 2:3) for Pride, Contentment (Psalm 34:10) for Greed, Love (1 Cor. 13) for Envy, Forgiveness (1 John 1:9) for Anger, Purity (Psalm 119:9) for Lust, Self-Control (Rom. 12:1) for Gluttony, and Diligence (Prov. 12:24) for Sloth. The Seven Deadly Sins are not mentioned as such in the Bible, but I believe that these are the 'root' sins in which all others come.. Any thoughts? |
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Are the Seven Deadly Sins in the Bible? |
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Prov 6:16
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Dear charis, blessings dear brother in Christ! I appreciate your point of view even though I disagree with you and with your 'dismissing' this point as an afterthought. The Seven Deadly sins is a list of vices that were catalogued by Christian monks in the early Middle Ages (as early as A.D. 600).. They are titled as such ("Seven Deadly Sins") because it was perceived that all of man's sin stemmed from at least one of these seven, being Pride, Greed, Envy, Anger, Lust, Gluttony, and Sloth. The real question here is- were the early monks correct or incorrect in recognizing that these are the roots of man's sin on earth? Now you can look at it in a 'rationalizing' method as you did above, but that does not get us anywhere. Thomas Aquinas spoke about vice and virtuous ethics as well as other things on this line, but we are speaking about the Bible here and man's problem, which is sin, and not Thomas Aquinas or any of the influential ethics philosophers of the past (E. Kant comes to mind). Now we know that there is one sin that is unforgiveable- that being blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. And God sees all of our sins in the same way and forgave them all through Christ. However, if this is true- that if man's sin on earth can be traced back to these seven fundamental roots of sin, then not only can we explain the vice here as something that is not just circumstantial (i.e. in the case of Thomas Aquinas), but also this would help us to explain man's problem of separation with God. You see, if indeed these 'Seven' are the roots of all sin, then we can better reflect upon our own lives and see exactly where we went wrong. We can see that the action that we partook of that was blatantly against the will of God was indeed because of pride/greed/envy/lust/sloth/anger/gluttony in our own hearts. If this is true, if one of these seven was a 'decisive, contributing factor' (again reflecting on Thomas Aquinas) then we can see where we have erred as a result, we can see where we were so blatantly against God's will, where in fact the sin that was committed can be traced to one of these 'Seven'. If this is true, then we must acknowledge this sin before God (confession) and repent of it before Him. Then we should seek to have 'nothing to do with' one of these sins in the future, 'correcting our behavioral pattern' (again Thomas Aquinas) and seek to react differently in the same situation in the future with a corresponding counterpart of the 'Seven', that being Humility, Contentment, Love, Forgiveness, Purity, Self-control and Diligence. If we obey the Spirit and are led by the Spirit in all our actions, then the Spirit will be the aid to help us to react in a way that would counter a 'root' sin. So you see, this is why we should identify a counterpart for each of the Seven Deadly Sins. If the Seven Deadly sins are recognized as such and if it is perceived that they consist or include all of man's sin, then this makes it that much more important to identify a 'corrective' behavior for that sin and therefore free us from the bondage of that sin after asking for forgiveness. And then we must continue in our path of righteousness and be free from all sin and all roots of sin, being free of vice in the exposed areas of our behavior because of the correction that was heeded or adhered to (E. Kant in his 'situational' theory of ethics).. Therefore, we are free from the bondage of sin because of the act of Christ (forgiveness), which enables us to continue in a 'virtuous' behavor (E. Kant again) because we have the aid of the Holy Spirit, which even can help us to impart forgiveness to a fellow soul (the same act of Christ) to another person to negate the 'deadly sin' of anger. In this way, by obtaining the very nature of Christ, can we be free from all sin and vice and be free to forgive and love one another as so commanded by our Lord and Savior. I hope that this explains where I am coming from and the true question that I was trying to present. Blessings to you also in Jesus' name, Nolan.. |
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Q: Why? Why? Why?. A: Because. |
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Gen 1:1
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why is a part of life it does not destroy faith it analyzes. people will choose a path of belief and will fight tooth and nail to protect that belief.to ask Why, is Growing.People need to be aware of others needs and wants I think it is called Love.
Love suffers long, endures to the point of being used and abused.
Love is Kind and thoughtful always conciders the other person.
Love does not envy or bicker.
Love does not behave rudly ,proudly or is snobbish.
Love does not seek its own will or its own kind it seeks out the lost.
Love does not parade its self openly or secretly.
Love is not puffed up with high imaginations of being better than any body else.
Love doesnt behave rudly love is polite and courteous.
Love is not provoked into arguments or spiteful outbursts.
Love does not rejoice in things that are evil but rejoices in all that is good and pure.
Love Bears all hurts to the end.
Love believes all the Word of God and rightly is balanced.
Love hopes to the end above what all circumstances say.
Love endures right up to the return of Christ.
LOVE never fails and if we all had love then it doesnt matter what another person says or does, it is the Holy Spirit that reveals Jesus to us and we could bang our head on the wall and it wouldnt help one little bit. But just remember it is the Why that makes us Human.YIC |
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What is meant by this passage? |
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James 4:5
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This verse is a pretty little problem all right, and you are obviously a person with keen observaton to notice it. As it reads in the NASB, it strikes me as ambiguous. It pains me to say that, because I hold this translation in extremely high regard. I'm afraid I can't agree that the insertion of a comma after Spirit would fix things. The sentence would still be murky. It really needs to be recast. Commas can be dangerous little critters. For example, suppose we insert a comma after "Spirit" and another after "made" -- wow! what a dramatic change in the dynamic occurs. We have cured the ambiguity, but we have changed the meaning. It now says something we know is not right. Another problem I see is that "Spirit" is capitalized (denoting Holy Spirit) but the relative pronoun that follows (and refers to Spirit) is "which" and not "whom", as it should be in modern English usage, if "Spirit" is understood to be the Holy Spirit A third problem with this verse is this: Is it Spirit or spirit -- Holy Spirit or man's spirit? I looked at other translatons. NKJV. like NASB, understands "Spirit", and so does the new Holman Christian Standard Bible. But NIV and the New English Bible render "spirit," as did the grand-daddy KJV...The verse is fairly clear in both the NKJV and the NIV; they have structured the sentence so as to eliminate possible ambiguity. The best exegesis I could find was John MacArthur's in his study Bible, published by Word: This difficult phrase is best understood by seeing the "spirit" as a reference not to the Holy Spirit, but to the human spirit, and translating the phrase "yearns jealously" in the negative sense of "lusts to envy." James' point is that an unbelieving person's spirit (inner person) is bent on evil. Those who think otherwise defy the biblical diagnosis of fallen human nature; and those who live in worldly lusts give evidence that their faith is not genuine....(MacArthur's note refers to the NKJV text)....You might wish to contact the Lockman Foundation with your question and I would urge you to do so, because I know that they value feedback from readers of the NASB and am confident they would welcome your questions and concerns. They give an address on their web site. which is Lockman.org. Not long ago, I posed a question to them about the translation of a verse in Ecclesiates, and they answered it thoroughly, scholarly, and even thanked me for asking! That's what we here in Arkansas call real nice folks...I see this is your first post, so welcome to the Forum. Good questions are welcome too, and yours was excellent. Drop by anytime and sit a spell! --Hank |
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What is meant by this passage? |
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James 4:5
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I have the King James and the verse is nothing like what is on screen Mine says:Do ye think that the scripture saith in vain, The spirit that dwelleth in us lusteth to envy. what has this got to do with "the Spirit which He has made to dwell in us? Is this the NASB? |
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What was Eve's sin? |
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Gen 3:6
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Dear Hank, I fully agree with what you have written. This forum has been an eye opener in many ways. I have been more of an observer rather than a participant and I've noticed that many good questions have been posted and many biblical and sound answers have been given. However, sometimes this is not the case and as an encouragement to all I would like to quote a few verses here:
"If anyone teaches false doctrine and does not agree to the sound instruction of our Lord Jesus Christ and to godly teaching, he is conceited and understands nothing. He has an unhealthy interest in controversies and quarrels about words that result in envy, strife, malicious talk, evil
suspicions and constant friction between men of corrupt mind, who have been robbed of the truth ..." (1 Tim. 6:3-5)
"Don't have anything to do with foolish and stupid arguments, because you know they produce quarrels. And the Lord's servant must not quarrel; instead he must be kind to everyone, able to teach, not resentful. Those who oppose him he must gently instruct, in the hope that God will grant them repentance leading them to a knowledge of the truth,..." (2 Tim. 2:23-25)
"But the wisdom that comes from heaven is first of all pure; then peace-loving, considerate, submissive, full of mercy and good fruit, impartial and sincere." (James 3:17)
Written with good intentions from 'Joy'.
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where does he ask that,baptized or not |
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Acts 2:38
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Why Modalism determined to be heresy. "The problem is that a group’s denial of an essential biblical teaching excludes that group from Christianity."
Ray: I am always at your service. Since you "missed the Oneness tree pretty much" (a condition which I envy), I will tell you why Modalism "was determined to be" heresy. Thank you as always for your interest. --JVH0212
(Note: the numbers 1, 2, 3, etc. within the text are footnote numbers.)
Oneness Pentecostalism: Heresy, not Hairsplitting
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“It would be inappropriate to argue that Jehovah’s Witnesses or various other groups are non-Christian because they deny the doctrine of the Trinity, but that the United Pentecostal Church can reject the Trinity and still be considered Christian.”
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The June 1997 issue of Charisma features an article by executive editor J. Lee Grady entitled, “The Other Pentecostals,”1 reporting on the estimated 17 million Oneness Pentecostals worldwide with 2.1 million in the United States.2
Grady calls Pentecostalism a “house divided.”3 While Trinitarian and Oneness Pentecostals alike trace their roots back to the Azusa Street Revival of l906,4 Oneness Pentecostals have been “separated from their brethren by a nasty doctrinal feud that split families and churches.”5 Today younger leaders in the Oneness movement hope to end the feud and lead their movement into the mainstream church.6
It is disturbing enough to read that 17 million Oneness believers are following a theology that rejects the biblical doctrine of the trinity.7 Even more troubling is the article’s suggestion that among many evangelicals this Oneness error is not terribly significant!”
Papering over Differences
After discussing the Oneness rejection of Trinitarian language, Grady uses the phrase, “To split doctrinal hairs even further,...” to introduce Oneness’ insistence on baptism in Jesus’ name only.9 While Oneness Pentecostals may be “too sectarian to mix with other evangelicals,” he writes, “they are too orthodox to be compared with Mormons or Jehovah’s Witnesses.” Grady concludes, “No one really knows what to do with them.”10
He proceeds to juxtapose striking comments by two leaders, one from each camp. Trinitarian scholar and ex-Oneness follower Gregory Boyd is quoted as saying, “If you deny the eternality of the three personal ways God is God, you undermine the very essence of Christianity.”11
Oneness leader T. F. Tenney states, “We do not deny the Father, the Son or the Holy Spirit.... We believe Jesus Christ is wholly, fully, absolutely, and completely God. But no one is going to put us in the position of saying that there are three Gods.”12 Grady then offers an observation on our times, seemingly without recognizing its devastating ramifications: “The argument over whether God is three-in-one or one-in-three is a moot point for the average layman, who tends to view the doctrine of the trinity as an unexplainable mystery.”13 Grady implies that the Church should be more concerned with other issues.
Concerning the baptismal view of the most rigid Oneness Pentecostals, he states, “It is on this issue, theologians say, that Oneness Pentecostals have drifted dangerously toward spiritual elitism and heresy.”14 Indeed, the Oneness view of baptism is lethally flawed.
Oneness View Seriously Flawed
Even to remotely imply, however, that corrections to the Oneness understanding of baptism would rescue Oneness theology is wholly misleading.
Grady expresses cavalier confidence that a prominent leader within the largest Oneness denomination, the United Pentecostal Church (UPC), has a right relationship with the Holy Spirit. Referring to Anthony Mangun, a friend of President Clinton, Grady writes: “A good friend who has the Holy Ghost. That might be the best friend any president could have.”15
The problem is that a group’s denial of an essential biblical teaching excludes that group from Christianity. While there may be some Christians in Oneness churches, the movement as a whole is non-Christian. As CRI president Hank Hanegraaff has said, “It would be inappropriate to argue that Jehovah’s Witnesses or various other groups are non-Christian because they deny the doctrine of the Trinity, but that the United Pentecostal Church can reject the Trinity and still be considered Christian.”16
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The Oneness denial of the true nature of God is heretical. Additional false teachings only compound their error. If you want to know more about the dangerous heresy know as Oneness Pentecostalism, CRI has several valuable resources available.
CRI, P.O. Box 7000, Rancho Santa Margarita, CA 92688
Material found at: www.equip.org/search/
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After Salvation, What? |
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Luke 9:23
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Well, let's see:
"If you love Me, you will keep my commandments." (John 14:15)
"As obedient children, do not be conformed to the former lusts which were yours in your ignorance, but like the Holy One who called you, be holy yourselves also in all your behavior; because it is written, 'YOU SHALL BE HOLY, FOR I AM HOLY.'" (1 Peter 1:14-16)
"For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them." (Ephesians 2:10)
"Therefore, putting aside all malice and all deceit and hypocrisy and envy and all slander, like newborn babies, long for the pure milk of the word, so that by it you may grow in respect to salvation, if you have tasted the kindness of the Lord. (1 Peter 2:1-3)
"the one who says he abides in Him ought himself to walk in the same manner as He walked." (1 John 2:6)
"Therefore be careful how you walk, not as unwise men but as wise, making the most of your time, because the days are evil. So then do not be foolish, but understand what the will of the Lord is. And do not get drunk with wine, for that is dissipation, but be filled with the Spirit, speaking to one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody with your heart to the Lord; always giving thanks for all things in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ to God, even the Father; and be subject to one another in the fear of Christ." (Ephesians 5:15-21)
Pretty tall order, wouldn't you say? How in my weakness can all this be accomplished?
"Finally, brethren, whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is of good repute, if there is any excellence and if anything worthy of praise, dwell on these things. The things you have learned and received and heard and seen in me, practice these things, and the God of peace will be with you." (Philippians 4:8-9)
"O how I love Your law!
It is my meditation all the day...
How sweet are Your words to my taste!
Yes, sweeter than honey to my mouth!
From Your precepts I get understanding;
Therefore I hate every false way." (Psalm 119:97, 103-104)
"Therefore I urge you, brethren, by the mercies of God, to present your bodies a living and holy sacrifice, acceptable to God, which is your spiritual service of worship. And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, so that you may prove what the will of God is, that which is good and acceptable and perfect." (Romans 12:1-2)
"My flesh and my heart may fail,
But God is the strength of my heart and my portion forever." (Psalm 73:25)
"But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not carry out the desire of the flesh." (Galatians 5:16)
SUMMARY: Just as the Holy Spirit works through the Word of God to regenerate the sinner, resulting in justification, so also the Holy Spirit and the Word of God are the essential components of the believer's sanctification. Nothing more, and certainly nothing less!
In addition, those who truly possess saving faith also will be gradually growing in holiness and righteousness, beoming more like Christ, a process that glorifies God and will only become complete when we ourselves are glorified at the Resurrection.
Any other verses you folks want to share? Sanctification is one of the least-emphasized doctrines in the church today. Much emphasis is placed on evangelism and "soul-winning," but so little on developing as disciples of Christ. Thanks for bringing up the topic, Hank!
--Joe! |
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Church Problems -- Then and Now? |
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NT general
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Hank ... Some may consider persecution a problem. I do not - tho our attitude toward it may be one.
The problems stem from selfishness and disobedience.
With thanks to David Riggs ... here is a partial list.
1. Preacher troubles.
a. Some fail to preach the whole truth - will not condemn certain sins. Acts 20:27
b. Some build a party (clique) about themselves. Thus, men follow them rather than the Lord. 1 Cor. 1:12-13; 2 Cor. 4:5
c. Some are trouble makers - thrive on controversy, ride their hobbies. Titus 3:10
d. Some live ungodly lives. 2 Pet. 2:13a-14a
e. False teaching. Titus 1:10-14
f. Unqulaified. 1 Tim. 3:1-7
2. Elder problems. Acts 20:30
a. Unqualified. 1 Tim 3:8-10; Tit. 1:6-9.
b. Sometimes members will not submit to them. 2 Cor. 10:10; Heb. 13:17
3. Forcing opinions on others. Rom. 14:1-3. Some are strong, others are weak.
4. Desire for preeminence. 3 John 9 - could lead to ...
5. Envy and jealousy. 1 Cor. 3:1-3; James 3:13-16
6. Partiality. 1 Ti |
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Judah's motive? |
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Gen 37:26
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Judah may have just been acting as a mediator between his brothers, thinking of a solution that would be the most 'reasonable', although he was acting very selfishly like his brothers in this situation.
The MacArthur NKJV Study Bible states, "The brothers' plans for murder and cover-up, the fruit of hate and envy, were forestalled by two brothers: first by Reuben, who intended to affect a complete rescue (vv. 21,22), and then by Judah who, prompted by a passing merchants' caravan, proposed a profitable alternative to fratricide (vv. 25-27)."
Nelson's NKJV Study Bible comments, "Reuben, as the firstborn son and principal heir, had the most to lose if Joseph's dreams came true (see Gen. 35:23). Yet Reuben intervened to spare Joseph's life. This was something of a contrast with his earlier wicked actions (Gen. 35:22). Reuben attempted to save Joseph's life by getting his brothers to leave Joseph in a pit. Without water in the pit, Joseph could only survive a few days. Reuben planned to rescue him in time. Reuben may have been motivated by a love for his father and a desire to ease the strained relationship with him that had resulted from his abuse of Bilhah (35:22; compare 49:4). Once Reuben convinced his brothers not to kill Joseph, he left (v. 29). 'What profit': The brothers not only considered killing Joseph, but started discussing how they could make the crime profitable."
The NIV Study Bible adds, "As Jacob's firstborn, he felt responsible for Joseph. He would later remind his brothers of this day (Gen. 42:22). Initially Reuben's attempts to influence events seemed successful (Gen. 30:14-17). But after his arrogant incest with Bilhah (Gen. 35:22) his efforts were always ineffective (Gen. 42:37-38)- demonstrating his loss of the status of firstborn (Gen. 49:3-4). Effective leadership passed to Judah (Gen. 37:26-27; 43:3-5, 8-10; 44:14-34; 46:28; 49:8-12)."
So it is possible that Judah, being the 'new leader' was acting here as a mediator, although he had his own selfish hate of Joseph, by suggesting that they sell him (make a profit) to the 'wandering gypsies' rather than to kill him, which would 'honor' Reuben's request. Either way, Judah is still acting with the intent of harm towards his brother Joseph. Regardless, God had a purpose to work through the brothers' thoughtless and cruel act (Gen. 45:5-8; see also Acts 2:23, 4:28).
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Let's talk about prayer |
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Bible general Archive 1
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Hank-
I think you have hit a subject that could use a whole new forum to address. One thing I have had to deal with myself, is the area of praying for my "wants" and not just my needs. God wants us to live the "abundant" life and the references given to God's generousity - not only in the spiritual sense- is all through scripture (Gen. 41:47; Num. 20:11; Deut. 30:9; John 10:10; Mal 3:10-11; Luke 6:38). When we go to the Lord in prayer, we must go as children to a loving Father who wants to know our every desire, not just what we think sounds "proper". Will we receive what we ask for? That is in the Lord's hands and in His best judgement. What are our motives for asking? If it is because of envy or greed, we are not in His will in the matter. And although and because He loves us as His little children, He will not give us everything we ask for. If I gave my children everything they asked for I would not be a responsible parent (plus I would be penniless!). I also believe that when the Lord blesses us generously in the physical sense, He expects us to use His lavishness to further the glory of His name.
Debbie |
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Let us Love One Another |
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1 Cor 3:3
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Grace and Peace to All,
I thank God our Father for the opportunity to be able to post my comments on this forum, and I pray that those who read this may be encouraged, strengthened, and/or have their eyes of understanding enlightened. I write these words with a spirit of love and meekness.
I have followed the comments of many threads in this forum and other sites.
I see many are knowledgeable about the scriptures, I see plenty of arguing, and contentions over different doctrines. I see where new babes in Christ can be overwhelmed, frustrated, confused, or put in doubt of their faith. I am reminded of the above scripture. Beloved, this should not be. Those of us who have been born again, born of the Spirit, and have grown in His grace and knowledge, who walk in the Spirit, in faith, in our great God and Savior, know the importance of loving one another. Being patient with one another, being kind and compassionate, forgiving one another, just as Christ has forgiven us of all our sins, once and for all.
As fellow laborers with God, we who have grown in Him, who are rooted and grounded in Christ's love, let us not be high minded, proud, worldly, wise in our own eyes, for we see in part.
As it is written: neither he who plants the seed, nor he who waters is anything, but it is God who makes it grow! If Christ lives in us, we have His Spirit that will guide us and teach us all truth, in His perfect timing, according to His will, not ours. We know Christ Jesus is the Truth, the way and the life. We are to keep our mind and heart focused on Him, and not on how much we know or don't know. Remember, God is doing His good work through us. God is building His Church, through us who have His Spirit. That is His power, the preaching of the cross, the fullness of His gospel. Christ's death, burial, and resurrection.
Who here has been drawn to Christ by his own knowledge and understanding? Who here has been drawn to Christ, by the Father's rod or whip or with rude and harsh words? Was it not by His love and gentle Spirit? Did we receive Christ's Spirit by works of righteousness, keeping the whole law or parts of it? Or, did we receive His righteousness by faith? Beloved, we have the mind of Christ, we have all spiritual blessings in Christ, and we are seated with Him. We have been made holy, righteous, blameless, and perfect in Christ. We are complete in Him!
How can we add to or take away from that which He has already made perfect? Each new creation in Christ Jesus, each member, each precious stone tried by fire, is built upon the solid Rock, the perfect foundation, Jesus Christ.
Many newborns in Christ and unbelievers enter Christian web sites, and what do they see?
Quarrelings, divisions, strife and confusion. The same that is in the world. Yes, even deception. Is Christ divided? No, we are all members one of another, if Christ lives in you.
When questions are asked, we need to answer in love and gentleness, to be patient towards all people, and to remember, it is God who will open their eyes and ears and give understanding.
Let us lift Christ up, and He will draw all men unto Himself. Let us remember that God has made peace with us, therefore let us be at peace with Him and others. Love cannot be perfected in fear, but perfect love casts out fear. We did not receive a spirit of fear, but of love, in Him. He loves us perfectly. God is always patient with you. God is always kind to you. God does not envy, He does not boast, He is not proud. God is not rude to you, He is not self seeking, He is never easily angered with you. God keeps no record of your wrongs. God does not delight in evil, but rejoices with the truth. He always protects you, always trusts you, always hopes the best for you, always perseveres with you. God's love never fails. All men will know we are His disciples, if we love one another. John 13:34...A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. Romans 15:7...Accept one another then, just as Christ accepted you, in order to bring praise to God. Ephesians 4:32...Be kind and compassionate to one another, forgiving each other, just as in Christ, God forgave you. How are we in the body of Christ to love, accept, and forgive one another? Just as God in Christ has loved, accepted, and forgiven us. Whether we realize it or not, we will treat other people with the same measure of love, acceptance, and forgiveness that we, rightly or wrongly, think we are receiving from God. We will never love one another with a greater love, than what we think we are receiving from God. May you be filled to the measure of all the fullness of God, and to know this love and grace that is in Christ Jesus that surpasses all knowledge. May He fill you with His peace and joy and love!
Your Brother in Christ
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Is the Christian under Law? |
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Ex 1:1
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Dear Brothers and Sisters
I thank God our Father for the opportunity to be able to post my comments on this forum, and I pray that those who read this may be encouraged, strengthened, and/or have their eyes of understanding enlightened.
I write these words with a spirit of love and meekness.I have followed the comments of many threads in this forum and other sites.
I see many are knowledgeable about the scriptures, I see plenty of arguing, and contentions over different doctrines. I see where new babes in Christ can be overwhelmed, frustrated, confused, or put in doubt of their faith.
Those of us who have been born again, born of the Spirit, and have grown in His grace and knowledge, who walk in the Spirit, in faith, in our great God and Savior, know the importance of loving one another. Being patient with one another, being kind and compassionate, forgiving one another, just as Christ has forgiven us of all our sins, once and for all.
As fellow laborers with God, we who have grown in Him, who are rooted and grounded in Christ's love, let us not be high minded, proud, worldly, wise in our own eyes, for we see in part.
As it is written: neither he who plants the seed, nor he who waters is anything, but it is God who makes it grow!
If Christ lives in us, we have His Spirit that will guide us and teach us all truth, in His perfect timing, according to His will, not ours. We know Christ Jesus is the Truth, the way and the life. We are to keep our mind and heart focused on Him, and not on how much we know or don't know.
Remember, God is doing His good work through us. God is building His Church, through us who have His Spirit. That is His power, the preaching of the cross, the fullness of His gospel. Christ's death, burial, and resurrection.
Who here has been drawn to Christ by his own knowledge and understanding? Who here has been drawn to Christ, by the Father's rod or whip or with rude and harsh words? Was it not by His love and gentle Spirit? Did we receive Christ's Spirit by works of righteousness, keeping the whole law or parts of it? Or, did we receive His righteousness by faith?
Beloved, we have the mind of Christ, we have all spiritual blessings in Christ, and we are seated with Him. We have been made holy, righteous, blameless, and perfect in Christ. We are complete in Him!
How can we add to or take away from that which He has already made perfect? Each new creation in Christ Jesus, each member, each precious stone tried by fire, is built upon the solid Rock, the perfect foundation, Jesus Christ.
Many newborns in Christ and unbelievers enter Christian web sites, and what do they see?
Quarrelings, divisions, strife and confusion. The same that is in the world. Yes, even deception.
Is Christ divided? No, we are all members one of another, if Christ lives in you.
When questions are asked, we need to answer in love and gentleness, to be patient towards all people, and to remember, it is God who will open their eyes and ears and give understanding.
Let us lift Christ up, and He will draw all men unto Himself. Let us remember that God has made peace with us, therefore let us be at peace with Him and others.
Love cannot be perfected in fear, but perfect love casts out fear. We did not receive a spirit of fear, but of love, in Him. He loves us perfectly. God is always patient with you. God is always kind to you. God does not envy, He does not boast, He is not proud. God is not rude to you, He is not self seeking, He is never easily angered with you. God keeps no record of your wrongs. God does not delight in evil, but rejoices with the truth. He always protects you, always trusts you, always hopes the best for you, always perseveres with you. God's love never fails. All men will know we are His disciples, if we love one another. John 13:34...A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. Romans 15:7...Accept one another then, just as Christ accepted you, in order to bring praise to God. Ephesians 4:32...Be kind and compassionate to one another, forgiving each other, just as in Christ, God forgave you. How are we in the body of Christ to love, accept, and forgive one another? Just as God in Christ has loved, accepted, and forgiven us. Whether we realize it or not, we will treat other people with the same measure of love, acceptance, and forgiveness that we, rightly or wrongly, think we are receiving from God. We will never love one another with a greater love, than what we think we are receiving from God. May you be filled to the measure of all the fullness of God, and to know this love and grace that is in Christ Jesus that surpasses all knowledge. May He fill you with His peace and joy and love!
Your Brother in Christ
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What does Scripture say about the Spirit |
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NT general
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Actually I am instinctively quite leery of extra-Biblical sources because many times they become the wisdom of man instead of God - especially when some of the conclusions do not come with readily apparent Scripture citings. I saw a lot of people whose Christian lives seemed to revolve mostly around devotional materials without much actual Bible reading. My reaction was to throw out devotional materials PERIOD and go STRAIGHT to the Bible! I am thankful for that pull I was given. However, since then I've realized that sometimes they do have valuable insights that are not immediately obvious when reading the Bible; on the other hand, often reading these can be like gleaning wheat from chaff, silver from dross. To balance the desire for more insight and reliance on Scripture alone, I usually read the booklets and then seek to confirm/deny what they say by what the Bible says. I wanted to know what justification, if any, there was for what the booklets, (and for that matter the extreme Pentecostalist viewpoint), have to say before tossing them out the window. However, despite having read the entire Bible through, there are always things I don't understand right away. I found it difficult to understand what the Bible had to say on this topic, so that is why I posted.
Re: the filling being up to us. I remember the booklet's viewpoint was that filling was something we should pray to God to have happen. Now, that prayer is a whole new thing that put me on edge; it said that if you pray you will be filled with the Spirit immediately, although it may not be obvious. I pray to God almost continually for His will and direction these days, but I have never viewed it as a light switch. The booklet used the interesting justification that, well, it is obviously God's will that we be filled with the Spirit (It did use a verse but I don't have it with me right now), and "if we ask anything according to his will, he hears us." (1 Jn 5:14) I do not fully agree with the argument, because we do not always understand how God wishes to fulfill His will (right away, over time, or in a way we haven't even conceived of yet?) It may even be His will to let us willfully rebel now and then so we may remember how weak we are. And sometimes we must suffer so that we learn to rely on Him. God's will has many objectives for the good of those who believe in Him, not just that one, so God finds ways to fulfill them all. (Maybe this belongs in the predestination thread; I'll go back on topic now)
Back to the BIBLE, though! The wording in the Ephesians verse leaves a little wiggle room for interpretation, "Be filled with the Spirit." Be, as in a state that is achieved by continually doing something? (Fill yourself with the spirit) or a passive state (Allow God to fill you with the Spirit)? To confuse the wording even more, here is Lk 1:15: "for he will be great in the sight of the Lord. He is never to take wine or other fermented drink, and he will be filled with the Holy Spirit even from birth." At least from birth, the passive sense is probably intended in that one particular verse.
Prompted by the responses of both of you (thank you again!) I went and re-studied it again. While I do not remember nearly all the good verses I found, here's what I've been reading from Galatians:
Gal 5:16-25 "So I say, live by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the sinful nature. For the sinful nature desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the sinful nature. They are in conflict with each other, so that you do not do what you want. But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under law. The acts of the sinful nature are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God. But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the sinful nature with its passions and desires. Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit. Let us not become conceited, provoking and envying each other."
I guess a rational conclusion would be that it is in a way both an active and a passive thing. We should live by the Spirit's direction (v. 16, 18, 25), but the words, commandments, love, etc are the fruit of the Spirit (v. 22, 23) that we cannot get for ourselves (v 18, Ro 8:1-17).
Re: Consistency. Yes, two times either I forgot to press the shift key, or once again this keyboard gave out on me. Sorry my typing isn't up to your standards.
May God bless you,
-- Joren |
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Why is His name is Jealous? |
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Ex 34:14
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Paulette, Jealousy is part of His love for us. He does not want us to go other gods, because He know the results. Jealousy I have heard is wanting to keep - envy is wanting to have. Steve |
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Are those He called always chosen? |
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Rom 8:30
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Hi Joe!
I am a big believer in the timelessness of God. Hence, all time is part of the eternal present for God. Therefore, I would say that it was always God's plan to include the Gentiles. But, according to Romans 11, this was accomplished in part through the hardening of Israel.
The relevant passage is:
Rom. 11:11 - "Again I ask: Did they stumble so as to fall beyond recovery? Not at all! Rather, because of their transgression, salvation has come to the Gentiles to make Israel envious. 12 But if their transgression means riches for the world, and their loss means riches for the Gentiles, how much greater riches will their fullness bring!
13 I am talking to you Gentiles. Inasmuch as I am the apostle to the Gentiles, I make much of my ministry 14 in the hope that I may somehow arouse my own people to envy and save some of them. 15 For if their rejection is the reconciliation of the world, what will their acceptance be but life from the dead?"
So, it seems as if God's plan was multi-pronged. Through Israel's rejection of the Gospel, Paul (and others) took the message to the Gentiles. Through the Gentile's acceptance of the Gospel, Israel will be provoked to accept the Gospel.
Your Brother in Christ,
Tim Moran
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Seven Deadly Sins |
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Prov 6:16
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Dennis, Proverbs 6:16-19 says, "There are six things which the LORD hates, yes, seven which are an abomination to Him; haughty eyes, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood, a heart that devises wicked plans, feet that run rapidly to evil, a false witness who utters lies, and one who spreads strife among brothers."
Pope St. Gregory the Great(590-604) said the seven deadly sins are: pride, envy, wrath,
sloth, avarice, gluttony
and lust.
Steve
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Seven Deadly Sins |
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Prov 6:16
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Hello Dennis!
Are the Seven Deadly Sins mentioned in the Bible? The Seven Deadly Sins are Pride, Greed, Envy, Anger, Lust, Gluttony, and Sloth. I believe that they are mentioned in the Bible, but not all together in one place. Proverbs 6:16 comes the closest to mentioning 'Seven Deadly Sins'.. I believe that each one is independently condemned in the Bible at least once.. Pride (1 Pet. 5:5), Greed (1 Tim. 6:10), Envy (Rom. 13:13), Anger (Eph. 4:31), Lust (Matt. 5:28), Gluttony (Prov. 23:20-21), and Sloth (Prov. 18:9).. Is every sin that man commits an 'offshoot' or can be traced back to one of these basic, deadly sins? It is also argued that the counterparts for the Seven Deadly Sins are Humility (Phil. 2:3) for Pride, Contentment (Psalm 34:10) for Greed, Love (1 Cor. 13) for Envy, Forgiveness (1 John 1:9) for Anger, Purity (Psalm 119:9) for Lust, Self-Control (Rom. 12:1) for Gluttony, and Diligence (Prov. 12:24) for Sloth. The Seven Deadly Sins are not mentioned as such in the Bible, but I believe that these could be 'root' sins in which all others come..
--Nolan
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Should the Bible be taken literally? |
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Bible general Archive 1
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EdB: As has been said before, the fact that the 'experts' don't agree on every last little point is proof that they are not hatching one giant conspiracy for the purpose of deceiving and defrauding the reading public.
The fact that evangelical authors of Bible reference books generally agree on the essentials is proof that each of them is not off on a separate planet doing his own thing.
Ed, I honestly do not mean you when I say this: I agree that some seem to think that anyone who gets a book published is an expert. It is also true that:
1) None of these publishers is infallible, but Zondervan, Nelson, Moody Press, Foundation Publications, etc. do not publish books written by fools, ignoramuses, kooks, crackpots, cultists, etc. None of us will agree with every last word published by the above named publishers. But, the publishers have a reputation for sound doctrine and reliability to uphold. When they publish a book, they don't intentionally publish trash.
2) There are also some people who seem to think that since you author a book, the book is automatically trash and its author subject to suspicion.
3) I think that with some, and again, Ed, please believe me, I do NOT mean you when I say this. But, some of our chronic expert bashers are motivated by envy, a contrary and excessively critical spirit, or just plain ego -- arrogance and ignorance wherein they are wiser in their own eyes than 100 recognized authors and teachers.
Take no personal offense, Ed, for none was intended. While I may not always agree with everything you write, I most certainly do believe you are a decent and honorable man, one deserving of my respect.
Radioman |
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Why does He list these 7/ 12? |
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Matt 15:19
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Why does He list these 7?
Why does it differ from the list in Mark 7:21-22 which says "For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed the evil thoughts, fornications, thefts, murders, adulteries, deeds of coveting and wickedness, as well as deceit, sensuality, envy, slander, pride and foolishness."
Don't answer this, just think about it ... which are you most guilty of? Are you innocent of any?
Steve |
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Can we eat medium rare meat or not? |
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Acts 15:29
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Excellent answer Dalprad!
Mark 7:18 He said to them, "Are you so ignorant? Don't you know that nothing that goes into a person from the outside can make him unclean?
Mark 7:19 For it doesn't go into his heart but into his stomach, and is expelled as waste." (Thus he declared all foods clean.)
Mark 7:20 He continued, "It is what comes out of a person that makes a person unclean.
Mark 7:21 For it is from within, from the human heart, that evil thoughts come, as well as sexual immorality, stealing, murder,
Mark 7:22 adultery, greed, wickedness, cheating, shameless lust, envy, slander, arrogance, and foolishness.
Mark 7:23 All these things come from within and make a person unclean." (ISV)
--Nolan
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Christian Primer Terms? |
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Bible general Archive 1
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Kalos:
You wrote:
"To repent ACTUALLY means *to change the way you think and act.* (It does NOT mean merely to feel badly about one's sins. Nor does it mean confession by itself. As a condition for salvation, repentance 'is a false addition to faith when understood as a *prerequisite,* requiring the cleansing of the life [first] in order to be saved' (Dr. Charles C. Ryrie, Ryrie Study Bible, Moody Press, 1978)."
I found it interesting that you apporvingly quoted Ryrie's stance on what repentance is when you seem to stand with MacArthur and so many others who disagree with this view.
The word "metanoia" (repentance) literally means "a change in thinking." I disagree that repentance itself is the change in actions; it is a change in attitude toward sin that will inevitably RESULT in a change of actions.
I hold that repentance is a gift of God that accompanies saving faith. Ryrie and Zane Hodges and others actually hold to a very weak view of repentance which doesn't necessarily mean any change of life at all. Most historically have held that repentance is a component of all true conversion. In Eastern Europe and Russia and other places in the world, they will actually use the term "repent" to describe their conversion. Rather than saying, "I was saved at age 30," Christians in this part of the world will say "I repented at age 30."
Ryrie and Hodges hold that people who are saved can go through their entire lives and not show the marks of true salvation. For Ryrie, the biblical idea of repentence is not only not a prerequisite; it isn't truly necessary at all!
And, of course, that denies several Scriptures which emphatically state that repentance is a part of saving faith and that the Christian will exhibit a markedly different life than the unregenerate:
Jeremiah 8:6
Ezekiel 18:30
Matthew 3:2-11; 11:21; 12:41
Mark 1:15
Luke 13:1-5; 15:1-10; 24:47
Acts 2:38; 3:19; 5:31 (who GRANTS repentance?); 11:18; 26:20
Romans 2:4-5
2 Corinthians 7:9-10; 12:21
2 Timothy 2:25
2 Peter 3:9
I have even heard people in the so-called "free-grace" vein go so far as to say that murderers can go on murdering, homosexuals can go on practicing homosexuality, thieves can go on stealing (and I would assume that cannibals could even go on eating), all without repentance and still be heaven bound because they have professed Jesus as their SAVIOR. What do Jesus and the apostles say?
"So every good tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot produce bad fruit, nor can a bad tree produce good fruit."
Matthew 7:17-18
"Either make the tree good and its fruit good, or make the tree bad and its fruit bad; for the tree is known by its fruit."
Matthew 12:33
"Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God."
--1 Corinthians 6:9-10
"Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are: immorality, impurity, sensuality, idolatry, sorcery, enmities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, disputes, dissensions, factions, envying, drunkenness, carousing, and things like these, of which I forewarn you, just as I have forewarned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God."
--Galatians 5:19-21
"Do not love the world nor the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him. For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh and the lust of the eyes and the boastful pride of life, is not from the Father, but is from the world. The world is passing away, and also its lusts; but the one who does the will of God lives forever."
1 John 2:15-17
"Little children, make sure no one deceives you; the one who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous; the one who practices sin is of the devil; for the devil has sinned from the beginning. The Son of God appeared for this purpose, to destroy the works of the devil. No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. By this the children of God and the children of the devil are obvious: anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor the one who does not love his brother."
--1 John 3:7-10
Sorry to belabor the point, but here inthe United States in particular is this evil notion that repentance and saving faith are mutually exclusive concepts. Repentance is not a work any more than intellectual belief in the facts of the Gospel is; hoever, repentance is inextricably linked to true, saving faith and will produce good fruit and the decrease of sin in the believer.
--Joe!
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FATHER fixation? |
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Bible general Archive 1
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You stated you were older and yet you still insult as a child by name calling. And you also attempt to insult me by putting me down. This is fine and I have no issues with you. I merely asked a question and yes I get a whole page of insult and mans teaching in patience I answer as best I can with tolerance of understanding which comes from understanding the enemy and how he manipulates all the FATHERS children to fear, anger, hatred, division, jealousy, envy, greed and power to name a few and I do this not for myself but so others might step away from themselves, if only for one moment so they can see the lie for what it truly is, pathetic. Pathetic that the FATHER has to put blinders on people for their own good, if they only knew what LOVE HE has for EVERYONE of all makes and walks would it still be the same? You decide your own fate because He loves you so much He gave you freewill to make your own choice. |
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Moral, Ceremonial, and Civil law |
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James 2:10
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"It was for freedom that Christ set us free; therefore keep standing firm and do not be subject again to a yoke of slavery."
Galatians 5:1
What yoke is he talking about?
"Behold I, Paul, say to you that if you receive circumcision, Christ will be of no benefit to you."
--Galatians 5:2
Ohhhh..he is talking about CIRCUMCISION.
"And I testify again to every man who receives circumcision, that he is under obligation to keep the whole Law."
--Galatians 5:3
Roger that. I won't be circumcized, and I won't be under the Law. Got it.
"You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace."
--Galatians 5:4
Good thing I am justified by God's grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone, then.
"For we through the Spirit, by faith, are waiting for the hope of righteousness."
Galatians 5:5
Waiting for the HOPE of righteousness? I thought according to Bill we already WERE righteous...
"For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision means anything, but faith working through love."
--Galatians 5:6
Faith WORKING....hmmmm....
"You were running well; who hindered you from obeying the truth?"
The truth is something that they were OBEYING in faith, but now are being hindered.
"For you were called to freedom, brethren; only do not turn your freedom into an opportunity for the flesh, but through love serve one another."
--Galatians 5:13
Serving one another. Sounds like works. Using our freedom to SERVE is what Paul's writing about.
"For the whole Law is fulfilled in one word, in the statement, 'YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.'"
--Galatians 5:14
Note: See Leviticus 19:18. That is in the LAW, for those allergic to the Old Testament. If Christ fulfilled the Law in every possible sens of the term, how are we still fulfilling it here by loving our neighbor?
"Now those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires."
--Galatians 5:24
Now what could this mean? Is the flesh dead now in our day-to-day lives?
"But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not carry out the desire of the flesh."
--Galatians 5:16
So if we have crucified the flesh and it is completely a thing of the past, how could we possibly be able to live by its desires?
"Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are: immorality, impurity, sensuality, idolatry, sorcery, enmities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, disputes, dissensions, factions, envying, drunkenness, carousing, and things like these, of which I forewarn you, just as I have forewarned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God."
--Galatians 5:19-21
Wow...quite a list! So if we practice these things, we will not share in God's inheritance. Works again? Paul emphatically states here (as elsewhere) that those who are truly possessing saving faith will NOT practice these things.
"If we live by the Spirit, let us also walk by the Spirit."
--Galatians 5:25
Walking in the Spirit, the term Paul utilizes time and again for living what we say we believe.
So there we have Galatians 5. Saved by a faith which produces works which are in obedience to and conformity with God's law. I am not running to be circumsized, since I have no desire to put myself under the Law to earn or maintain my salvation. Christ earned it for me, and the proof is in my walking in the Spirit and not fulfilling the desires of the flesh, which is a continuing work of the Holy Spirit in me (read: NOT my own power, as some have suggested). When I am in Heaven, I will be completely righteous, and I hope for that day just as Paul did.
The problem isn't that I am desiring to be justified by the Law -- I see that I have to emphasize yet again that I am not. The problem is that you deny that law is good, even in the life of the believer. Every New Testament epistle writer disagrees, and I will continue to point it out every time you put forward antinomianism ("against Law"). There is a distinction between not being under the Law and being AGAINST the Law. You err by adhering to the latter view in your insistence that the Law is useless for the saints of God.
--Joe! |
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Only seal and horse in same verse Rev6:5 |
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Bible general Archive 1
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Matt 18:21 Then came Peter unto Him, and said," Lord how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times?
Matt 18:22 Jesus saith unto him,"I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, seventy times seven.
As for trust no man:
Jer 17:5 Thus saith the Lord;" Cursed be the man that trusteth in man, and maketh flesh his arm, and whose heart departeth from the Lord.
And
Luke 18:9 And He spake this parable unto certain which trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others:
Regarding Constellations:
In the first mention of the heavenly bodies, the purpose of the Creator is clearly stated, Gen 1:14-19 reveals the fact that they were created, not only "to divide the day from night, and to give light upon the earth"; but, they were set "for signs, and for seasons, and for days and years".
Signs therefore, of something or some One to come. Those who understand them are enlightened by them. Those who do not may well be "dismayed" Jer 10:2
The stars were all named by God. Psalm 147:4
God is the God of the earth and the heavens and astrology has everything to do with Christianity, it tells the story of Christ starting with Virgo which is the Virgin Birth and there are twelve constellations which the number twelve denotes governmental perfection. I did not make this up the Father did and He named the constellations.
Now you have two new studies, numbers and constellations. May Jesus show you the way!
Matt 7:1 Judge not, that ye be not judged
Matt 7:2 For with what judgement ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
Matt 7:7 Ask and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:
Matt 7:8 For everyone that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.
Also I am a man, so don't assume things and you will stay out of the hot seat and it sounds like you are putting women down saying they are easily deceived. You better take a look at your own self and remember if were not for a Woman you would not be here. If I offend you some how just say so and I will be a little softer. All men and women are created equal, just some more blind than others. We have to admonish each other not put each other down. Next time it's Mr. Cleo.LOL
May Jesus show you the compassions of Love for your brothers and sisters and the enemy not cause you to be sucked into his tricks of division,greed, power, jealousy or envy. |
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Genesis Creation, a practical example? |
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Bible general Archive 1
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Scripture............................
Greetings Sir!
I can't really think of anything real specific. The passage you referred to is probably the best.
Mk. 7:20 He went on: ‘‘What comes out of a man is what makes him ‘unclean.’ 21 For from within, out of men’s hearts, come evil thoughts, sexual immorality, theft, murder, adultery, 22 greed, malice, deceit, lewdness, envy, slander, arrogance and folly. 23 All these evils come from inside and make a man ‘unclean.’”
Other than that, there are passages like Rom. 8:1-12, where sin is dealt with more as an act of will than anything else. By this, I simply mean that a believer is able to will something other than sin.
But, you original passage is good enough for it speaks of evil coming from the heart.
Your Brother in Christ,
Tim Moran |
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