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Abel's sacrifice better than Cain's? |
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Heb 11:4
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Heb. 11:4 says that Abel offered a better sacrifice than Cain. That is a clear statement in Scripture. We next need to ask, "Why was Abel's offering better?" It is clear from the Gen 4 account that first each person's offering is described and then the text says the LORD had regard (or did not have regard) for that person AND their offering. So, the person was connected to the offering because -- as Hebrews points out -- the kind of offering brought was a clear demonstration of the person's faith. Finally, if one studies the nature of sacrifices made throughout Scripture, it is clear that God requires a blood sacrifice to atone for the sins of His people. It is completely a sound inference to say that Abel's offering was pleasing because it was a blood sacrifice. In the previous chapter, God kills an animal (blood) to get the skins for Adam and Eve's clothes. Later, Abraham is about to make a blood offering of his son Isaac, (though he substitutes a ram instead). This is the most important reason for understanding that - IN CONTEXT - Abel's offering was preferred was because it was a blood offering: because it was a type of the ultimate blood sacrifice and substitute, Jesus Christ. Abel's blood even cried out from the ground! Abel himself was a picture of Jesus Christ: though innocent he was killed, and the Lord replaced him, "resurrecting" the line of the promised Seed of the woman, by causing Eve to give birth to Seth. Just like the word "trinity" is not in the Bible but is clearly taught, so it is legitimate to infer the meaning of something like this when so much of the rest of Scripture in totality is in support of it.
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Was Pharaoh responsible? |
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Rom 9:17
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There is certainly room for disagreement on how much control God exercised over Pharaoh's heart and decisions at this time, but I think Romans 9:19-23 laves no question that Pharaoh was held guilty for the attitude that he had toward the Lord and his people. -- -- I am not of a Beza-Calvinist position that would suggest deliberate control over a person's final responsiveness to the Holy Spirit's conviction. Immediately before this exposition of God's control is the sequence of Romans 8:28-30, where God's foreknowledge of his people is followed by predestination to conform us to his image, then calling, justification and glorification in respective sequence. -- -- I assert that Pharaoh's heart was against God and his people. However, even a king who refused to worship God and love his people would be expected to exercise wisdom through temporary repentance. It is this temporary repentance that God prevented. His objective was not to have his people go into the desert, worship him, and return to slavery under a pagan king; his objective was to lead his people into a new life free from slavery and under willing submission to Himself as Lord and Savior. God controlled circumstances and even intervened in Pharaoh's heart and plans to accomplish this purpose and to bring himself glory. -- -- God does not choose to crush the wicked (whom he foreknows) before they are born but endures them despite his knowledge that their creation will result only in rebellion and destruction. However, he intervenes as he wishes in order to reveal Himself and to keep his plans for the righteous on course. -- -- I don't know whether the totality of what Pharaoh saw finally convicted him -- bringing him to repentance -- or whether he went the route of (most of) the Pharisees in blaspheming the Spirit in the face of unquestionable demonstration of God's power and authority in the world. His part in the Bible story ends at the Red Sea, but there is no indication in the history that I know that either Pharaoh or the Egypt of Pharaoh's time turned from their idols to God. Instead, those who turned to God apparently left with the Israelites as part of the "mixed multitude" (Ex.12:38). |
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Who are "under the earth"? |
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Phil 2:10
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Demons and lost humanity in hell are those who are "under the earth." See 1 Peter 3:18-22. |
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Can a believer lose his salvation? |
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Luke 8:13
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How does a "saved" person "renounce" his salvation? It's not common for a saved person to blaspheme the Holy Spirit, is it? If a "saved" person renounced his salvation, it would only demonstrate that he had never been saved to begin with. Since when does the omnipotent Jesus save someone only to have them cast off what He has predetermined to do for them since the beginning of time?
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Who are the sons and daughters? |
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Gen 6:4
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Fellows, can spiritual beings procreate with humans? Then 'Rosemary's Baby' is possible? Please be more careful of what you read in the supermarket checkout line. There is no scriptural reference to angels (or demons, or cherubim, etc.) mating with humans. |
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hoyy spirit bap. evidence tounges? |
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Acts
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Searched for: tongues
1 Mark 16:17 "These signs will accompany those who have believed: in My name they will cast out demons, they will speak with new tongues;
2 Acts 2:3 And there appeared to them tongues as of fire distributing themselves, and they rested on each one of them.
3 Acts 2:4 And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit was giving them utterance.
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Was the wine alcoholic or not |
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John 2:10
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Definitely alchoholic. Luke 7:33 (NAS lockman foundation)"For John the Baptist has come eating no bread and drinking no wine, and you say, 'He has a demon!'
Luke 7:34 "The Son of Man has come eating and drinking, and you say, 'Behold, a gluttonous man and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and sinners!'. Sam Adams makes a great lager.
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That's an interesting belief. |
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Luke 23:43
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This verse warns about losing what we worked for. By definition our salvation is not being talked about here. Look a Eph 2:9 "Not by works, lest any man should boast" and Titus 3:5 "Not by works of righteousness which we have done", but I don't need to tell you this. You are fully persuaded that salvation is free. Look at Eph 1:13 the language is that of a contract, we believe, God gives us pledge. The Bible is pretty clear about the inability of God to lie, so a pledge by God is as good as money in the bank or better yet a citizenship in heaven. Also when God seals something it is sealed forever, and the Bible says that the Holy Spirit is sealed in us by God. That means if I go to Hell, the Holy Spirit goes with me. It isn't going to happen. Therefore when we believe, God makes the Phil 1:6 commitment to continue the work until the Day of Jesus Christ. It seems to me that the falling away that I hear about is hypothetical, and the changes that I see in redeemed souls are real. So, when someone receives Jesus and is radically changed from the inside out, the change is permanent which demonstrates the eternal nature of the salvation. |
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TV Show "Crossing Over" - Dead Speaks? |
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Deut 18:11
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Read the entire text Deuteronomy 18:9-14.
Be vary careful with anything like this. I read a book once by a Christian author that describes some of the ways that the occult (witchcraft)works. The purpose of this book was to inform Christians so they would not be ignorant to this type of stuff and fall ignorantly under demonic influence. This book indicated that there are demonic spirits called "familiar spirits" these spirits follow people around and observe them in their lives. Some men or women under the influence or by using these "familiar spirits" are able to speak in detail of a person's past. These are the same spirits that so called "psychics" operate through. They are able to with moderate accuracy predict what is going to occur in someone's life by seeing what they have done. Those who claim to be "communicating with the dead" are doing what called "necromansing" In the above text it actually says "one who calls up the dead" in the KJV this is referred to as "necromansing"
Also read in the New Testament Luke 16:19-31 - it indicates that the dead cannot "come back" or communicate with the living. If this dead rich man could have simply communicated with his 5 brothers he so dearly wanted to warn - then he would have.
Also check out the account in Acts 16:16-19 - this young girl was a soothsayer (psychic)and it describes that she was possed with a spirit of divination. This may shed some light for you also.
Please be prayerful about what you allow into your mind through television, internet, etc. The devil doesn't always come with pointy ears, a fork and a red tail. If he did - no one would fall for him - he comes appealing to whatever seems logical or interesting to you. I pray that you are a Christian and that your walk with God would be strengthened. |
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Blue marbles roll faster than red ones |
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Rev 19:4
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Thank you for challenging me to look the urantia book up. It was very informative. It kind of reminded me of L.Ron Hubbard's Dianetics mixed with the teachings of the church latter-day saints (mormons). I can't say that I agree with your assesment of it value, however. 2 Cor 11:14 No wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light. (NAS;lockman foundation)
The most effective lie, is that which contains some truth in it. I believe that the Urantia Book is clever scheme of our adversary, the devil, to distract us from truly finding the truth. John 8:31-32 ( So Jesus was saying to those Jews who had believed Him, "If you continue in My word, then you are truly disciples of Mine; you will know the truth, and the truth will make you free." NAS;lockman foundation)
Joseph Smith had a vision. He was visited by the angel moroni, this angel gave him instructions to write what became known as the book of mormon. I believe Joseph. I think he did see an angel. However, I believe he saw a fallen angel, a demon. 1 Tim 4:1 "But the Spirit explicitly says that in later times some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons" (NAS;lockman foundation)
We need to be carefull what we accept as truth and test everything.
1 John 4:1 "Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world."(NAS;lockman foundation)
I am willing to listen to any biblical evidence that you have that might support your theories on the book of urantia being part of "Holy Scripture".
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Was there any other human being in Node |
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Genesis
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Adam and Eve had more children than just Cain and Abel. They just weren't recorded in the Bible. God, even in their sin, did not want them to stop reproducing (if God were sure to end it there, He would have, but even then He was demonstrating His grace and His mercy!) Of course, He handled things with Noah and the flood, but that's another story for another time. Anyway, Cain married one of his siblings. |
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Does God let you know? |
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Bible general Archive 1
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Perhaps there are times when God will let one of his know that the time is near so that this person can demonstrate the love they have for the Lord and how the Lord has worked in their life. This could open the eyes of other friends and family members and bring them to a closer walk with GOD.
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Blue marbles roll faster than red ones |
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Rev 19:4
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I'm not putting you down, bobmoy. I'm simply saying that if you believe the heretical teachings of the Urantia Book then you are lost. That's not a put-down, that's just the facts. Living by the words of Jesus is indeed the path to eternal life, but if you include in those words of Jesus the ones supposedly attributed to him by the Urantia Book then you are in error.
In one of your other messages, you said, "I use this half of the book [referring to section 4 of the Urantia Book] as a commentary that helps me with my own Bible study and teaching." In another message, you claim that the Bible is the first of the two witnesses spoken of in Revelation, the Urantia Book being the other. Both of these seem to indicate that you believe the Bible to be God-inspired. At the very least you put the Bible and the Urantia Book on par with one another as co-witnesses. But then in your most recent response to me you said, "Yes, the Scriptures are man-made." I can only take this to mean that you agree with the Urantia Book's denial of the God-inspired authenticity and accuracy of the Bible since that's what I was talking about. But then you go on to say, "However, the words of Jesus that are printed in The Bible are accurate and true." Can't you see that this is double-talk? If the Scriptures are simply man made documents, devoid of divine inspiration, then how can you cherry-pick the recorded words of Jesus out and say that they are accurate while at the same time denying the accuracy of everything else? If the Bible is simply man made then none of it can be trusted. And if the Bible is man made while the Urantia Book is God-inspired (you said as much when you claimed it was the sealed scroll mentioned in Daniel), then how can the Bible be co-equal with the Urantia Book as one of the two witnesses? How can something man made be a witness to God's word and works? Finally, if the Bible is simply man made while the Urantia Book is God-inspired then why do you use the Urantia Book as merely a commentary while studying the Bible? Shouldn't it be the other way around?
You said, "The Word was not made 'book'." This is an attempt to twist the argument by hanging the whole thing on a single definition of "word". The term "word" has several different but closely related shades of meaning, especially in Greek thought (remember that the New Testament was written in Greek). When John 1:1 says, "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God," the Greek term for "word" has other meanings as well. To quote from a study note in my NIV Study Bible: "'Word.' Greeks used this term not only of the spoken word but also of the unspoken word, the word still in the mind -- the reason. When they applied it to the universe, they meant the rational principle that governs all things. Jews, on the other hand, used it as a way of referring to God. Thus John used a term that was meaningful to both Jews and Gentiles." So the fact that the Word was made flesh and lived among us does not mean that the word in another sense could not also be recorded on paper for posterity. You are attempting to deny the God-inspired origin of the Bible by playing word games.
In one of your other responses to me, you said: "Yes, all of The Urantia Book is valid and accurate." I can only take this to mean that you don't believe in a single Trinity, you don't believe in original sin or the fall of man, and you don't believe in the redemptive death of Jesus, since all of these denials are taught by the Urantia Book, which you claim is entirely valid and accurate. You say that you believe the words of Jesus as recorded in the four gospels? Then how do you reconcile the Urantia Book's denial of the redemptive death of Jesus with Luke 24:45-47: "Then he [Jesus] opened their minds so they could understand the Scriptures. He told them, 'This is what is written: The Christ will suffer and rise from the dead on the third day, and repentance and forgiveness of sins will be preached in his name to all nations....'" (NIV). For that matter, the fact that Jesus caused them to understand the Scriptures demonstrates that He thought the Scriptures were authoritative rather than man made.
I must confess bobmoy that I don't understand you. Between your self-contradictory statements, your attempt to villify me, and your highly improbably claims (like the Urantia Book driving people insane), I strongly suspect that you are a troll. At the very least you are trying to lead others into the Urantia Book heresy. But whatever the case may be, I think it is apparent that neither of us is going to convince the other of anything so I suggest that we quit trying. |
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Lure or Norse demon? |
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Rev 19:4
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Dear dlnash. Great answer! You had more courage than I to study about the Urantia baloney (bologna?). Thank you. By the bye, How did you mean 'troll?' I suspect you meant 'lure.' Bring it to the light, friend. (could you have meant Norse demon?) In Christ Jesus. |
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Lure or Norse demon? |
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Rev 19:4
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It doesn't take courage to study something like the Urantia Book enough to recognize it as heresy. You just have to be secure enough in your faith not to be led astray. Being sceptical about supposed "new revelations" and downright cynical about the base motivations of mankind also helps. :-)
"Troll" as I used the term refers to someone who enters into a discussion forum with the purpose of disrupting it by posting messages which are likely to provoke highly emotional or off-topic responses. This usage originated on Usenet, I believe. It refers to a type of fishing wherein the hook is pulled through the water in the hopes of snagging something, a process called "trolling." Trolling in the sense I'm using here is done by people who enjoy stirring up anger and hostility for their own amusement (it is unfortunate that such people exist, but sadly they do). A person who engages in trolling is, naturally, called a troll. The pun of this against the meaning you cite (a demon of Scandanavian mythology), is no doubt intentional since people who fall for a troll's bait and respond to him are said to be "feeding the troll," and are admonished not to do so. When I said that I suspected bobmoy of being a troll, I said that not as an attempt at name-calling as he claims, but as a concise description of what I suspected his behavior to be. I will grant that this is not a very flattering thing to say, but it does seem to be a plausible explanation. But I must say in all fairness that it is equally plausible that bobmoy is sincere but badly misled. I still don't understand how he can claim to believe everything the Bible says about Jesus but still believe in the Urantia Book as well. |
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Matt.24:42 Why did Jesus make wine? |
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Matt 6:8
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People are so important in God's kingdom, and Jesus came to demonstrate His love. Jesus supplies whatever we need in the right timing. |
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Snatch? |
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Hebrews
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Well, I did a word study on the word knowledge, since it would seem like a key to understanding the verse. One could make a point that the word doesn't necessarily mean experiential knowledge, but it would be weak. I can't in clear conscience say that the word doesn't mean what it looks like. But, let me add these thoughts.
1. There seems to be a parallel here to what Jesus said about driving out a demon and not filling the place, but sweeping it clean and the demon returns and brings with him seven demons that are worse.
2. Since I am sealed with the Holy Spirit, and He cannot deny Himself, it would seem difficult at best for me to renounce Christ, when his alter-ego is sealed in me.
3. God promised to finish the work that He started because he is faithful.
4. Paul seemed to deal with Christians that went astray. Leaving the flesh to be destroyed, with the confidence that the spirit would be saved.
To sum up:
God is faithful when we are not, He knew we would fall.
God has a plan for when we won't listen, and being turned over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh sounds like a worse state to me.
The Holy Spirit cannot deny Himself, so we can't casually walk away from God. We would have to tear ourselves free from the greatest force on earth, the force that kept Jesus on the cross, God's incredible love.
I believe that as a believer, we are secure in the love of God, we have a holy and righteous fear of God, and we know in the depths of our being that God is the answer to all of our needs, and therefore choosing to leave is not even a possibility to the redeemed, to those that have been changed from the inside out. |
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why did God create the world |
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Gen 1:1
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Xapis has a great response, but I'd like to add one more observation in reply. Your comment, "...look at all the suffering and evil that would have been avoided" had He not created the world only scratches the surface. What I mean is "look at all the LOVE that would NOT have been demonstrated" had He not created the world. You see, I can appreciate your question of "why" after you point out that the omnipotent God "knew all the suffering, pain, and evil that would happen in the world." While at first, that may appear to contradict God's other characteristics of "loving and merciful," it really doesn't because it's only part of the picture. I agree He "knew" of the suffering, pain, and evil WE'd have to endure and that WE even cause (after all, we all have sinned in one way or another during our lives) but what amazes me all the more is that He also "knew" the suffering, pain, and evil HE'd have to endure at the hands of His own creation. Jesus willingly submitted to the cross, the nails were driven in, and the death caused by mankind--His creation--because of His love for His creation. Your observation is revealed and answered in the simple quote: 1 John 4:19 We love, because He first loved us. (See also 1 John 4:10) That's why I love Him all the more! |
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But can WE know this? |
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Hebrews
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An 'admitted' Arminist! Welcome, my friend, to the show that never ends! Though I profess no capital 'A' or 'C' (or 'X' or 'Y' or 'Z') I do agree with your about 'sudden' damnation, in the same way I do not believe that Satan can 'snatch' us away from God. Just to add an anecdote that is (somewhat) relevant: I went to a meeting a few years ago, and the preacher said that he 'cast out several demons from himself using a mirror just prior to the meeting.' Needless to say, I did not stick around for fellowship after the meeting! Very mobile demons!
Blessings in Jesus' name! |
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Is Jesus God? |
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John 1:1
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Your question: Can anyone show me any passages that show that Jesus is God?
. . . The following outline is taken from Baker Topical Guide to the Bible, Walter A. Elwell, (Grand Rapids, MI: Baker Books, 1991), ISBN 0-8010-2255-X, pp. 88-106. The Scripture references are far too numerous to include here. Also, if your friend is sincere, I would suggest he read (without the accompanying interpretation of The Watchtower organization) the entire New Testament, particularly the Gospel of John and the other gospels. As to your friend's unbelief, as Jesus said in Luke 16:31: "If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, neither will they be persuaded if someone rises from the dead." Likewise, if they do not listen to Jesus Himself (the Gospels) and the Apostles (NT Epistles), they wouldn't believe if they were eyewitnesses to Jesus' resurrection.
Here is my answer.
The Deity of Christ.
...A. Jesus' Claims to Deity.
. . . 1. Claims Relating to God.
. . . a) Jesus Claimed Equality with God. Matt 10:40; Matt 11; Matt 28; John 3; 5; 6; 8; 10; 12; 14; 15; 16; 17.
. . . b) Jesus Claimed the Rights of God.
. . . (1) Jesus Claimed to Forgive Sins.
. . . (2) Jesus Claimed to Give Life.
. . . (3) Jesus Claimed to Judge.
. . . (4) Jesus Claimed to Grant Spiritual Blessings.
. . . (5) Jesus Did Miracles.
. . . (6) Jesus Cleansed the Temple.
. . . (7) Jesus Claimed to Establish God's Kingdom.
. . . (8) Jesus Exorcised Demons.
. . . (9) Jesus Claimed to Defeat Satan.
. . . (10) Jesus Claimed to Be Lord of the Sabbath.
. . . (11) Jesus Claimed to Be David's Lord.
. . . c) Jesus Claimed the Authority of God.
. . . d) Jesus Described Himself as God's Counterpart on Earth.
. . . e) Jesus Accepted Prayer, Praise and Worship.
. . . f) Jesus Found the Source of Power within Himself.
. . . g) Jesus Never Showed Any Consciousness of Sin.
. . . 2. Claims Relating to Human Beings.
. . . a) Jesus Promised Peace and Rest to Those Who Trust Him.
. . . b) Jesus Claimed Power over All Life, Space, and Time.
. . . c) Jesus Claimed to Determine People's Eternal Destiny.
. . . d) Jesus Claimed Final Authority over People.
. . . 3. Claims Relating to Jesus' Mission.
. . . a) Jesus Came to Be People's Savior.
. . . b) Jesus Came to Make God Known.
. . . c) Jesus Came to Sum Up the Entire OT.
B. NT Claims to Jesus' Deity.
. . . 1. Jesus Is Considered Equal with God. Acts 2; 1 Cor 1; 12; 13; Eph 4; 6; Phil 2:6; Col 1; 2; 3; 1 Thess 3; 2 Thess 2; 1 John 2; 1 John 5; Rev 20; Rev 22.
. . . 2. Jesus Possesses God's Attributes. E.g., Omnipotence; Omnipresence; Omniscience; etc.
. . . 3. Jesus Does the Work of God.
. . . a) God's Work Related to the Created Order.
. . . b) God's Work Related to Mankind.
. . . c) God's Work Related to the Problem of Sin.
. . . d) God's Work Related to Believers.
. . . e) God's Work Related to Scripture.
. . . 4. Jesus Is Identified with God.
. . . 5. Jesus Is Paralleled with God.
. . . 6. Jesus Is Assigned OT Designations of God.
. . . 7. Jesus Is Superior to Men and Angels.
. . . 8. Jesus Receives Prayer, Praise, and Worship.
. . . C. The Sinlessness of Jesus.
. . . D. The Glory of Christ.
. . . E. The Resurrection of Christ.
. . . F. The Exaltation of Christ. |
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Preordained free will? |
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1 Pet 2:9
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OK. But how can the all-knowing, all-powerful God not know what each of us will choose through free will? I believe He does and knows. Part of His plan is that we demonstrate our faith in Him by following the teachings of the Gospel, despite knowing that He has preordained all events in the Universe. This is how we build our character. I must ask, though, why? Seems like answering the "why" questions is religion's task. The Lord has blessed me with an inquisitive attitude and I look forward to hearing others' insights and stimulating their own thoughts.
(I understand this issue has caused great rifts in Christianity over the past 500 years; hopefully this discussion keeps to the mending side). In His name. |
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Beginning of Bondage |
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Gen 47:20
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Joseph's brothers did not have to sell themselves for their food. They brought payment each time, and it was returned to them. They were given land apart from the Egyptians in which to live and raise their livestock. All the land of Egypt had reverted to Pharaoh, and all Egypt was taxed at a 20 percent flat tax (Gen 47:26), but this was not slavery and was not specific to the Hebrews; it's even arguable that they didn't have to pay this tax (at least at first), since their land was apparently given TO them (rather than being sold BY them TO Pharaoh). Joseph brought great honor upon his family from the Egyptian leaders of his time, as demonstrated by their representation at Jacob's funeral (Gen 50:7).
The slavery of the Hebrews didn't start until a Pharaoh arose who was not acquainted with Joseph and the great service he had rendered to the power of Egypt and to the line of the Pharaohs (See Exodus 1:6-14). They became increasingly harsh until Pharaoh finally issued progressive edicts requiring the killing of the Hebrews' newborn boys (Exodus 1:15-22). This is the setting into which Moses was born. |
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Why won't Calvinists answer directly??? |
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Job 38:1
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Sorry IF that offends you! What could you possiibly mean by IF? At first glance I didn't see how you own an honest sorrow. Which is weightier to you, your emptiness for being offensive or your pride of intellect?
We all must realize that our positions are lived out in all of life. You can't treat people one way and then treat their Creator (whose image we bear) another way that is inconsistent with one another. Would you lead someone to Christ with such an inconsistant repentance? Would it look like this..."sorry God IF I have sinned and offended your Holy law, please save me. Of course you wouldn't, but I would like to know what license you have for such behaviour?
I have a clear conscience with all that has gone on but you must face the inconsistencies of your beliefs. This is not theory! It is as real as life itself. You have demonstrated the inconsistencies of your position. Your position is not defensible and you go off as a result.
Why do you refuse to defend the specific point of difference, "chance" for salvation? I have not yet seen an articulated approach to that small part of what you say I twisted. Get to work on it or maybe we'll just have go for a fifteen mile foot race to resolve our issues!
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Ideal, but prerequisite? |
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1 Timothy
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It is written: "But the Spirit explicitly says that in later times some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons, by means of the hypocrisy of liars seared in their own conscience as with a branding iron, men who forbid marriage..." 1 Tim 3:1-4 NASB |
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Why won't Calvinists answer directly??? |
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Job 38:1
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First of all there is no biblical evidence of what happend to Pharoah. You cannot assume one way or the other. Yes, there is a posibiity that Pharoah's realized the power of God and repented. The opposite is also possible. There is no sin to great for God to forgive.
Just because God hardened his heart does not mean he was damned. It just means that he had to use Pharoah to demonstrate the great power of God to both the Egyptians and the Isrealites. What happened after the Sea of Reeds is not stated in the Bible (that I'm aware of). Egyptian history may offer some clue but that really doesn't matter.
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3 gifts, or less? |
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Eph 4:11
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This is in reference to one of your side notations, that the apostles healed on the basis of the faith "of the recipients" -- which threw up red flags for me. Jesus often said, "You're faith has made you well." However, this seems to be more a matter of them coming to him because they believed. The inability to heal or cast a demon from someone seeking healing was ALWAYS attributed to the lack of faith of the HEALER, NOT the person seeking healing (see Matthew 17:14-20).
There is no mention of any individual being unable to receive healing from Christ or any apostle based on a lack of faith from that individual, and Jesus healed everyone whom he attempted to heal. This idea of a lack of faith on the part of the intended recipient is simply a hurtful displacement of blame (either intentionally or by ignorance) by any healers claiming (again intentionally or ignorantly) to have gifting or faith beyond what they actually have. If we assume that the supernatural gifts can and do still exist today (and include the gift of apostleship in this, as you apparently do), the guidelines and examples of Scripture need to honored by them.
For example, Jesus deliberately followed the limitation of only proclaiming healing to those whom the Father told him to heal (Jn 5:18-20; 8:27-29). This would also carry into the apostles (and other healers, exorcists, etc.), who were apparently given insight into what God was choosing to do and thus enabled to be his vehicles. For example, Paul waited several days before casting out the demon from a annoying false prophetess that had been following him around for many days shouting (Acts 16:16-18). The woman didn't ask for healing, and Paul waited many days (whether because of lack of permission or whatever) before casting out the spirit. Whether Paul received revelation that it was OK at that point or whether the effectiveness was simply a mark of apostleship is debatable. The point is that Paul declared it and it happened; the woman's faith or lack thereof was irrelevant. This is Biblical aposteship in action and is confirmed in other examples. Paul (as simply one example among the apostles) did NOT receive everything he asked for in prayer (2 Cor 12:8-10), but everything he (and the others) declared happened regardless of the attitude of the recipient.
Asking for something in prayer (and trusting God to do his will) is always acceptable (except in the obviously extreme situation where God has clarified his refusal, as in Paul's condition). However, claiming and commanding a healing that does not take place means that the healer is either a charlatan, is deceived, is lacking in faith or is completely ungifted. Just as a prophet whose single prophecy is clearly untrue is thus proven false altogether, so is anyone (proven false) who claims himself to have supernatural powers that fail in their attempted exercise.
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Tongues - do you realize... |
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Matt 11:13
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That is true in every situation in life, we can never be truly objective. What we can do is attempt to get all of our issues in the open, being as completely honest with ourselves first and then we can approach objectivity.
Now having that said let me say the following about what I have learned. First of all, I have never spoken in tongues. I have read an account of a modern missionary who while encouraging his native friend, spoke to the friend without any accent while delivering a message that the missionary thought God wanted him to share.
I have also had a close friend in another state, who was also one of my pastors who had a prayer language that he did not understand. He did not think that the prayer language made him more spiritual, that he needed to pray in that language or that I needed a prayer language. He also walked consistantly in the Spirit, which was evidenced in that he learned from me( what humor is not allowed).
So, I don't do tongues, I have had modern experiences related to me that demonstrate both the ability to speak in languages that you don't know and praying in an unknown language. I have had many experiences related to me about the unholy and unruly nature of those that speak in tongues.
So, I will continue to walk in the Spirit and as 1John 4:1 says "test the spirits". The tests to date demonstrate a consitency with the scriptures by some and a deviation by others. Looks like the Spirit is alive and well, and unfortunately the tempter and counterfeiter is also up to his usual tricks, divide and conquer. |
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Is Biblical literacy dead?Or is prophecy |
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Matt 11:13
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Dear JVH,
You quoted I John 4:1 but didn't include verse two "By this you know the Spirit of God; every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God; and every spirit that does not..."NASB I'm not familiar with the ASV and don't have a copy available. Can you tell me if they capitalize "know the Spirit of God" as does the NASB and NKJ? I believe that it should be a small s. All the other words of spirit are lower case and I think this one should too. What do you think? Or do you care? I don't want to make you mad but I would also put in the lower case I JN 3:24 "We know by this that He abides in us, by the spirit which He has given us. Beloved, do not believe every spirit..."
I've learned to compare this scripture with Mt 12:31b ..."but blasphemy against the Spirit shall not be forgiven. Whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man, it shall be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the (Holy) Spirit, it shall not be forgiven him..."
I also compare Mathew 12:28 "But if I cast out demons by the spirit of (God), then the kingdom of God has come upon you." I compare it with Mk 11:20 "But if I cast out demons by the finger of (God), then the kingdom of God has come upon you."
Now in regard to prophets, why are we looking for a true prophet instead of looking for the one and only true (God), the (Prophet) who was to come?
See John l:21 Later, Ray P.S. Please excuse my parenthesis use. |
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Spiritual beings procreate? |
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Gen 6:4
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Forum Fellows, Can spiritual beings procreate with fleshly beings? I can think of only one instance in the Bible where this took place, and that was the conception of Christ Jesus in Mary by the Holy Spirit. Yet, the 'common interpretation' of this scripture is that the sons of God are angels. If we believe the angels can procreate with humans, then it follows that demons can, too. Or is this another thing that is 'for a limited time only?'
Blessings in Christ Jesus. charis |
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