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Jesus condemn soldier to life on Earth? |
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Amos 1:1
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Prior to the crucifixion, did Jesus
condemn a Roman soldier to walk the
earth until his return? The movie
The Seventh Sign shows such an event.
What is this soldier's name and what is
the scripture? |
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Please explain this verse? Mark 15:34 |
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Mark 15:34
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Obviously only Jesus knows for certain what motivated Him to cry out such as statement, but I'd like to offer the following as a "possible" reason that I do not believe is too far-fetched and rather reasonable when one ponders it. We know He cried out loudly, obviously knowing those watching would hear him, and we know the words he spoke can be found in the first verse of Psalms 22. I believe most of the Jews watching were well versed in the OT Scriptures as Jesus knew they would be. I believe Jesus cried this out "loudly" at least partly to draw attention to those verses in Psalms, thus identifying himself and the sacrifice he was committing at that very moment. I'm not trying to lessen the fact that He had to have been suffering extreme pain both physically and even spiritually; He, in all his holiness, was sacrificing himself in payment for a whole world of sins. But, as that sinless sacrifice or Savior, which the Bible professes Him to be, He would not and could not have jeopardized it by lashing out in error against the will of God the Father prior to paying the penalty for sins, that is, prior his death; Otherwise, He'd no longer have qualified as the Savior. But if we let his words lead us to read the entire chapter of Psalms 22, which begins with the same words Jesus spoke in Mark 15:34, you can see it paints a graphic picture of a man's crucifixion, which was prophesied centuries before and fulfilled in that moment: from the sneering masses to the piercing of his hands and feet, from the fate of his garments to his death prior to the thrust of the sword. Beginning with Christ's quote of the 1st verse to the last lines of Psalms 22, it all sums up the actions of that day and gives the next prophesy for the future--"It will be told of the LORD to the coming generation. They will come and will declare His righteousness. To a people who will be born, that HE has performed it."
At least that's how I see it.
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Experience Hell? |
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Mark 15:34
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The only way Christ could pay the price for our sins was to actually experience the pain of separation from God. At the moment of His crucifixion, He took upon Himself all of the sins of man. Though God was with Him -- just as God is always with us -- Christ experienced the crucifixion and death as a man. He "descended into Hell" and rose again on the third day. Salvation comes to men not by their own works, but by accepting the payment Christ made for our sins (John 3:16-17, Romans 3:23). |
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Jesus separated fron the Trinity? |
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Mark 15:34
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Though Christ has always been -- and will always be -- the Word of God, and in fact God Himself (John 1:1), it was essential to salvation that He *experience* death and Hell as a man. Though God was with Him -- just as God is always with us -- Christ felt the weight of sin and death as a man would feel them. In that dark moment of crucifixion, our God fully experienced death as a man. |
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Was Jesus actually in the tomb 3 days? |
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Not Specified
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Was Jesus actually in the tomb for three days or was it three days from the time of his crucifixion until he arose? |
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Was Jesus actually in the tomb 3 days? |
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John 19:31
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Was Jesus actually in the tomb for three days or was it three days from the time of his crucifixion until he arose? |
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Was Jesus actually in the tomb 3 days? |
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John 19:31
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Tradition has it that Jesus rose from death on the third day, being crucified on Friday and rising on Sunday. However, it's very possible (and even probable) that Jesus was actually crucified on a Wednesday, which was then followed by the 7th day of the Passover, which was a special Holy Day (see Exodus 12:16-18). He would then have remained in the tomb 3 complete days (sunset Wednesday to sunset Saturday, then on into early Sunday morning) before rising on the "first day of the week" -- the timing of which is clearly stated in the gospels and recognized by all.
Although this is contrary to the image that we often have of the events, John's gospel appears to indicate fairly clearly (in John 19:30-32) that the Sabbath after Christ's crucifixion was actually a special holy day (presumably one of those associated with the Passover) rather than simply the 7th-day-of-the-week weekly Sabbath.
This is not some wild new idea of my own imagination. There have been respected theologians who have advocated this, and I have heard at least one current and respected teacher (Charles Swindoll) advocate such a timing of events, as well.
Just as in the legend that has grown up around Jesus's birth (arriving in Bethlehem the very night of his birth, magi at the manger rather than a house or inn, etc.), there are traditions that have become treated as actual in the crucifixion story as well. They don't seem to me to be harmful enough misunderstandings to be fought against, but it's worth bringing out their limitations from time to time. |
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Was Jesus actually in the tomb 3 days? |
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John 19:31
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"Three days and three nights. (Matt 12:40) This phrase does not necessarily require that 72 hours elapse between Christ's death and resurrection, for the Jews reckoned part of a day to be as a whole day. Thus this prophecy can be properly fulfilled if the crucifixion occurred on Friday." (Ryrie Study Bible, Moody Press, 1976, 1978)
. . . " 'Three days and three nights' (Matt 12:40)was an emphatic way of saying 'three days,' and by Jewish reckoning this would be an apt way of expressing a period of time that includes parts of 3 days. ... All sorts of elaborate schemes have been devised to suggest that Christ might have died on a Wednesday or Thursday, just to accommodate the extreme literal meaning of these words. But the original meaning would not have required that sort of wooden interpretaion." (MacArthur Study Bible, p. 1415, Word Publishing, 1997)
. . . "THREE DAYS AND THREE NIGHTS. (Matt 12:40) Including at least part of the first day and part of the third day, a common Jewish reckoning of time." (Matt 12:40, Zondervan NASB Study Bible, Zondervan, 1999)
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Did Jesus know he was God? |
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Bible general Archive 1
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That is true what you are saying. But, Jesus being God and man he knew that would feel the excruciating pain. Which was and is a struggle with the flesh. We also struggle everyday doing whats right and pleasing in the sight of God, and that's what Jesus did, but, he knew that he was going to suffer in agonizing pain.
Reference scripture: (Psalm 22th chapter).
If you read in the prophetic books of the prophets, you will learn that God spoke threw these prophets. As you read pslam 22th chapter you will notice the prophetic words that was spoken out of the mouth of David, are the same words that Jesus spoken and what occured during the crucifixion.
The answer is; Yes, it can be backed up scripturally. #2. No, If you are a follower of Christ it is not a mystery; Eph 3:4 Whereby, when you read, you may understand the knowledge in the mystery of Christ.
Col 2:2 That your heart might be comforted, being knitted together in love, and unto all riches of the full assurance of understanding, to the acknowledgement or (make known) the mystery of God, and of the Father, and of Christ. "To you!"
It is Given to you to know the mystery.(Luke 8:10)
If you are a born again man NOTHING SHOULD BE MYSTERY to you. All ways remeber that in your studing.
You are on the right track, don't worry, your wisdom and knowledge will come as your study. 2Tim study and show yourself approved unto God, rightly dividing the word of truth. I pray that you receive the knowledge and wisdom to understand the word of God. Here's a web site.
www.blueletterbible.com any questions my email is ministerhudson@hotmail.com
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Why the 7th day bent? |
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Col 2:16
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In the beginning,God created heaven and the earth in 6 literal days, on the 7th day He rested, and made this day Holy. God new that man needed a day of rest (sabbath means rest) to renew,rest,worship and remember Him as God and creator. God reaffirmed this to Moses with the ten commanment law written with His own finger,engraved in stone.(the only scripture that was not given through men).
What day is the Sabbath day? Saturday. Read the account of the crucifixion in the book of Luke. Christ was crucified on Friday( the preperation day),rested on the sabbath day in the tomb,(saturday),and arose on the first day of the week(sunday). Christ kept the sabbath,even in his death. The apostles kept the sabbath,even Paul. He taught the Jews and the Gentiles alike on the sabbath day.
Sould we keep the Sabbath today? Yes! I challenge anyone to show me from scripture where God changed the day to sunday.(first day of the week)
How did the change take place? Study chruch history. It happened during roman times when the church and government became one. During the reign of Constintine,(a pagan and nominal christian), who worshiped the sun.there festival day was sunday (the venerable day of the sun).In order to unite the empire,with the churches apostasy,to incorporate the pagans into the chruch (along with many of there practices and idol worship),the day was slowly changed to sunday.
Will we keep the Sabbath in the future? Read the book of Isa.66th chapter.verses22-23. Yes we will.
Gods ten commandment laws have not changed nor will they change.
Was this part of the law given by inspiration through Moses? No. the mosaic law and ordinances were nailed to the cross with Christ. He was the fulfilment of these. The Sabbath is Gods seal ( as mentioned many times in scripture) His rightful
claim as God and creator. How can someone justify pulling the 4th commandment out of the ten commandments and and deceide not to keep that one command. Would it be ok to not keep "thou shalt not Murder",or say "thou shalt no commit adultery"
its that one ok not to keep. You can try and explain it away anyway you like. The facts are as they stand.Sunday keeping is a product of man,not Gods plan for us.
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3 days and 3 nights and Sabbaths |
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Matt 12:40
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There is still a minor problem. Lev. 23:5 defines the Passover. It also defines Sabbaths or other Holy Convocations. From reading this we can see that the Passover is called a Holy Convocation or day of rest. Also note the day after the Passover which is the Feast of Unleaven bread is also a Holy convocation or day of rest.
For Jesus to be crucified on Friday and buried and have the women go to the grave on Sunday would mean that Jesus was crucified on a Holy Convocation Day or Jewish Day of rest. Could the Sabbath talked about in the scriptures really be the Feast of the Unleaven Bread a Holy Convocation?
Jesus is a fullfillment of OT designs. I believe Jesus' trimphal entry into Jerusalem was on the 10th of Nisan, or the day of the "Selection of the Passover Lamb". I believe his death was on 14th of Nisan, the day the Passover Lamb is killed. At twilight of that day begins Passover. Jewish days run from 6pm to 6pm.
Let's place Jesus' trimphal entry on 10th of Nisan or our Sunday (Palm Sunday). Then the 14th of Nisan would span our Wed and Thru. I submit Jesus was really crucified on Thrusday right before the begining of Passover, the following day was a Holy Convocation or Sabbath the "Feast of Unleaven Bread", the next day would be the weekly Sabbath. Therefore the first day the Women could get to the tomb was the first day of the week Sunday. (You really need to plot this out on paper overlaying our days over the Jewish days)
Placing Jesus' death on Thursday would eliminate the problem of the 3 days and three nights. Also the fulfillment of the feast would be accomplished. But one problem remains the scriptures say Jesus celebrated the Passover with His disciples. There is two explainations for this none of which I can document.
The first, I'm told there was conflict between the Jews as to when months started. Some would go up on to high places to see the new moon others would wait in front of the temple. I'm told the ones that used the high places were a day ahead of the ones that didn't.
The second, I'm told there is a Jewish provision for travelers to celebrate Passover on the eve before passover so that they could arrive at their distination before the Holy convocation of Passover and Unleaven bread came into effect.
While I admit both of these are reaching I still have to believe Jesus' death coincided with the killing of the "Passover Lamb" and that was right before twilight on the 14th of Nisan. And since all of these days are Holy Convocations or Sabbaths, I maintain we are confused by the term Sabbath Day in the crucifixion story.
Looking for your thoughts. |
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3 days and 3 nights as a Hebrew idiom |
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Matt 12:40
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I agree with you both. Also it fits with the New Testament, where it says Noah's ark was a type (picture)of Christ.
It says in Genesis 8:4 "In the seventh month, on the seventeenth day of the month, the ark rested upon the mountains of Ararat."
Remember after the Exodus, God said of the seventh month the Seventh month Exodus 12:2 "This month shall be the beginning of months for you; it is to be the first month of the year to you"
They picked the lamb on the 10th - triumphal entry.
They slaughtered the lamb on the 14th - Crucifixion (Thursday).
The feast of first fruits was the day after the sabbath, the 17th (Sunday, the same day the ark rested on the land.
Also note that we know that the actual date of the start of Daniel's 70 weeks is March 14, 445 BC because of the moon. 69 weeks of 360 day years (prophetic years - see Revelation) lands exactly on April 10 (Palm Sunday), 32 AD. Passover was Thursday in 32 AD. |
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Did I offend you? |
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Matt 12:40
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Gospelmidi, in your response I sense some issues, if I in any way offended you please accept my most sincere and humblest apology.
Please excuse my tardiness to respond to the points raised, but I needed time to verify what I believe to be correct was in fact correct.
The theory I presented was not my own, but I was first lead to it by a Messianic Jewish Rabbi. I was unable to contact him to verify my conjecture so I went to another very reliable Messianic Jew. That person then referred me to still another Jewish scholar and both agree that the Passover is called a Sabbath. Therefore I feel fairly comfortable in making that connection. Jews do call the Holy convocation of Passover a Sabbath. It is called Shabbat Gadol or High Sabbath or Shabbaton. Also the day before the Passover is called the day of preparation.
Now as far as crucifixion taking place on Friday, let us reason together using your original premise or “Hebrew Idioms”. First let us establish some facts and then proceed from there. First we know Jesus died on the cross in the ninth hour Matthew 27:45-50. Secondly we know the on the morning of the “First day of the Week” the tomb was empty Matthew 28:1-6. Thirdly we know that Jesus said that just as Jonah was in the belly of a whale for three days and three nights so would the Son of Man be. Matthew 12:40. Now those are the facts and I think we all agree to those.
Now examine the popular teaching that Jesus was crucified on Friday. The Bible places time of death as some time after 3 PM and before the next day which starts at 6PM. Let’s figure Joseph and his servants was able to place Jesus in the grave within an hour of His death. We then have from 4Pm to 6Pm or one partial day. Starting at 6PM and going through 6Pm would be the Jewish Saturday or the Sabbath. So we have 1 full night and 1 full day. Then at 6PM Saturday we now begin the Jewish Sunday so we have another full night and since the Tomb was empty on the Sunday morning sometime after 6AM we will count another partial day. Lets add it up 2 partial days (going with the idiom factor we count them as 2 days), 1 full day and 2 nights.
The results would be 3 days and two nights. We are short 1 night either full or partial.
Since Jesus clearly said he would be in the heart of the earth 3 days and 3 nights something must be wrong, we need at least one more night. I submit the only way we can get that night is move the crucifixion back to Thursday instead of Friday.
To further emphasize my point I made the statement that if Jesus was crucified on the Friday the Jews would be violating a Holy Convocation Sabbath. The point was brought up that while that was true, however the Romans held no respect for the Sabbath and the they were the ones that crucified Jesus. Scripture is very clear here, the Jews were active participants in the Crucifixion. Furthermore just walking from Anna’s house to the Temple to Pilate Quarters then to Herod’s Palace then back to Pilate and finally to Golgotha would have more than violated the allotted Sabbath steps. To say nothing of holding a trial on a Sabbath or to stage what I think we can all agree to be a demonstration.
Finally a point was made that we have to study and understand the culture of the people at the time a book is written to get the full understanding of the message the book is trying to convey to it’s reader. I think this is exactly what happened. Early church scholars with little or no knowledge of Jewish tradition read that the Jews were anxious to get the men down from the crosses because of the forthcoming Sabbath. Not being aware that Passover and Feast of Unleaven Bread were Sabbaths they assumed it was the weekly Sabbath that was being referred to. Hence we have church tradition.
I realize this issue has been a topic of many ongoing debates and will probably not be settled until Jesus Himself sets the record clear. Men far wiser and more learned than I have taken both sides of the discussion and it truly doesn’t effect our salvation one way or the other. I presented my thoughts on the subject so that others could, if they so decided, use it as an answer to the question about what appears to be a conflict in the Bible’s account of the Crucifixion and Resurrection story. I certainly did not to do it to challenge you or to use it as an occasion to attack you. Again if I have caused you any offense please accept my apology.
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Did I offend you? |
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Matt 12:40
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EdB wrote:
I realize this issue has been a topic of
many ongoing debates and will probably not
be settled until Jesus Himself sets the
record clear. Men far wiser and more
learned than I have taken both sides of
the discussion and it truly doesn’t effect
our salvation one way or the other.
_____________________
Hello EdB,
I appreciate your "tone of voice" here, so I will relax a bit. Messiah Jesus is our Passover, and in Him, days, months, and years are irrelevant. So let's see how far I can travel this road in agreement with you.
Inasmuch as Dec. 21 is the longest day of the year in Jerusalem, after Mar. 22, evening begins no earlier than 6PM and the morning no later than 6AM. But for the sake of convenience, we will agree on 6PM and 6AM. Then the first hour is from 6AM to 7AM, and the ninth hour, when Jesus died, from 2PM to 3PM. That gives Joseph of Arimathea from at least 3 hours to a little over 4 hours to complete Jesus' burial.
Thursday crucifixion matches the 3 days and 3 nights of Mt 12:40 perfectly:
until 6PM Thursday - one day
until 6AM Friday - one night
until 6PM Friday - one day
until 6AM Saturday - one night
until 6PM Saturday - one day
until sometime before dawn Sunday - one night.
On the first day of the week, the women came early to the tomb, while it was still dark (Mt 28:1; Jo 20:1), and found that He had risen.
We agree so far.
BUT... He was raised on the third day. To nail down the meaning of "the third day," we need to look at other occurrences of this phrase. Be persuaded that it does not mean, "three days later."
"And there was evening and there was morning, one day... a second day... a third day." (Gen 1:5, 8, and 13).
"Come, let us return to the Lord. For He has torn us, but He will heal us; He has wounded us, but He will bandage us. He will revive us after two days; He will raise us up on the third day that we may live before Him." (Hos 6:1-2).
So "day one" is the day of the event, and the "third day" is two days later.
"The third day" is used similarly in:
Gen 42:17-18
Ex 19:10-11
Lev 7:16-17
Lev 19:6-7
Num 29:12,17,20
Judg 20:21,24,30
I Sa 20:12
II Sa 1:1-2
Esth 4:16 and 5:1
Mt 16:21
Mt 17:23
Mt 27:64
Mk 9:31
Mk 10:34
Lu 9:22
Lu 13:32
Lu 18:33
Lu 24:7
Lu 24:21
Lu 24:46
Ac 10:40
Ac 27:17-19
I Co 15:3-4
If you want a contrary interpretation of "the third day," look at Gen 40:13,20 and I Ki 12:5,12 (II Ch 10:5,12). But with these two exceptions, "the third day" is idiomatic in the scriptures, meaning, "the day after tomorrow."
Therefore, my never-humble opinion is that Jesus died between 2 and 3PM on Friday, and He rose again before dawn on Sunday, "the day after tomorrow," or "the third day." I base this on the context of all the rest of scripture, excluding Mt 12:40 (plus Gen 40:13,20 and I Ki 12:5,12, if you wish).
So what are we to do with this pesky prophecy from the Messiah Himself? I prefer to leave it as one of those unanswerable conundrums, a paradox we will have to wait until that Day to understand. Any human interpretation will never settle this debate, any more than man can establish peace in Jerusalem.
If that won't satisfy the western mind, which demands closure on every issue and an answer for every riddle, the best I know is to use the Hebrew idiom, "an evening and a morning," meaning a day or a part of a day. Then, "3 days and 3 nights" can be s-t-r-e-t-c-h-e-d to mean three 24-hour days or parts of a 24-hour day. Friday until sunset, Saturday until sunset, and thereafter until His resurrection satisfies that definition.
But I'm not sure about that, either. It appears to be a question to hold on to until Jesus comes. |
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The Rapture, when will it be? |
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Bible general Archive 1
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THE 70 WEEKS OR 70 7S ARE BROKEN DOWN INTO 3 GOUPS 7 62 AND 1 THE FIRST WAS TO REBUID THE WALLS AND TEMPLE EZRA NEHEMIAH THE 2ND 62 WAS THE MESSIAH CUT OFF THE CRUCIFIXION 14 NISSAN 30 AD
70 7'S DETERMINED UPON THY PEOPLE AWAITING THE FINAL 7... 490 YEARS TOTAL IN PROPHECY THE CHURCH WILL NOW AWAIT AS THE BRIDE OF CHRIST...ALSO REV. 3:10 |
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One religion as good as another? |
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John 14:6
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Hank-
I guess if you are looking to be religious, then Christianity would be as good as any other. But I want to be follower of Jesus Christ. Through Jesus, we are guaranteed: 1.) Forgiveness of our sins; 2.) The gift of an eternal spiritual life; and 3.) The promise of Jesus being our intercessor before God our Father.
And not because we are good people or do alot of good things in our lives. Because we can't even come close to earning this privilege. We have all broken God's laws, whether it is lying on a school quiz, or committing a criminal act. But God loves us so much, he provided our salvation through His Son, Jesus. All we need do is confess that Jesus is Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, and you will be saved. See Romans 10:9. You won't find a better deal nor the peace and joy this promise brings! Take a look at the other religions and see for yourself.
With any of the other religions, you will not find a promise nor are they based on the events of one person through the crucifixion and resurrection of Jesus Christ (God in the flesh.)
If you took these events away, or removed Jesus from our lives, then Christianity as a religion would lose it meaning. The other religions are not based on these events and thus survive to be what ever you would like them to be. And there lies the problem. But they won't give you the gift of eternal life.
In John 14:6 - Jesus makes it extremely clear, "I am the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."
Seek the truth! Our God in Heaven encourages it. I pray that your heart and mind are opened.
Good Luck in your journey! |
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Why is Good Friday not 3 days to Easter? |
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Matt 12:40
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"Three days and three nights. (Matt 12:40) This phrase does not necessarily require that 72 hours elapse between Christ's death and resurrection, for the Jews reckoned part of a day to be as a whole day. Thus this prophecy can be properly fulfilled if the crucifixion occurred on Friday." (Ryrie Study Bible, Moody Press, 1976, 1978) . . . " 'Three days and three nights' (Matt 12:40)was an emphatic way of saying 'three days,' and by Jewish reckoning this would be an apt way of expressing a period of time that includes parts of 3 days. ... All sorts of elaborate schemes have been devised to suggest that Christ might have died on a Wednesday or Thursday, just to accommodate the extreme literal meaning of these words. But the original meaning would not have required that sort of wooden interpretaion." (MacArthur Study Bible, p. 1415, Word Publishing, 1997) . . . "THREE DAYS AND THREE NIGHTS. (Matt 12:40) Including at least part of the first day and part of the third day, a common Jewish reckoning of time." (Matt 12:40, Zondervan NASB Study Bible, Zondervan, 1999) |
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Are 'we' there, yet? |
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Matt 16:18
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Dear Charis,
In my younger days, I, too, saw so many different different denominations and 'cellular organization' and wondered which one was the 'TRUE' church. I also desired to witness an organism, an entity that portrays the body of Christ. But, my friend, I have never found one. But I have found, in my travels, many people that I could see Christ living through.
Please don't take this the wrong way, but I'm not sure that it is God's design to 'witness an organism' as such. That would not require any faith. We are the body of Christ. Collectively, we make up His body here on earth. But you can't look to any one group or organization and say, "Ahah! There He is!" Why? Because being part of the body of Christ is an INDIVIDUAL choice. It is not done through organizational membership.
Permit me to give you an illustration from scripture. On the night in which Jesus was betrayed, He told His disciples that He (physically) was going to go away. And He said that it was a good thing. He gave them a great illustration of what would happen to His body. He took a loaf of bread (which, obviously, they could see) and said, (paraphrased) "This represents My body. It is whole right now. Visibly one loaf." Then He broke it, symbolizing the crucifixion. Then He distributed His 'broken body' to the disciples and told them to eat it. After they had done so, where was His 'body?' Well, the broken bread was in each of the disciples. The loaf (His body as a visible whole) was no longer visible. It was now no longer an external, visible entity. It was now an invisible 'bread of life' inside His disciples. And this event happened at Pentecost. Christ then came to indwell His followers.
Though we may desire to witness a whole, visible manifestation of Christ body, I don't believe that that is what God has ordained. If we could 'see' it, then it would be limited to time and space. Instead, His body has been 'being built' down through time since creation (old testament saints have become part of it, too) from all parts of the world. And it will be numerically complete at some point in the future when Christ returns and the remnant recognize Him as Messiah.
I know that this is not the answer you are looking for. This forum has a wealth of scriptural knowledge available to it. But this is my answer. Would anyone else care to comment?
In Him,
Lifer |
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curious questions concerning crucifying |
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Matt 27:22
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Crucifixion was the most painful and degradng form of capital punishment in the ancient world. So cruel and horrendous was it that the Roman government exempted their own citizens from this method of execution. A person crucified in Jesus' day was first of all scourged (beaten with a whip consisting of thongs or at least flogged until the bloodflowed. This was not just done out of cruelty but was designed to hasten death and lessen the terrible ordeal. After the beating, the victim was forced to bear the crossbeam to the execution site in order to signify that life was already over and to break the will to live. A tablet detailing the crime(s) was often placed around the criminal's neck and then fastened to the cross. At the site the prisoner was often tied (the normal method) or nailed to the crossbeam. The nail would be driven through the wrist rather than the palm, since the smaller bones of the hand could not support the weight of the body. The beam with the body was then lifted and tied to the already affixed upright pole. Pins or a small wooden block were placed halfway up to provide a seat for the body lest the nails tear open the wounds or the ropes force the arms from their sockets. Finally the feet were tied or nailed to the post. Death was caused by the loss of blood circulation and coronary failure. Especially if the victims were tied, it could take days of hideous pain as the extremities turned slowly gangrenous; so often the soldiers would break the victim's legs with a club, causing massive shock and quick death. Such executions were usually done in public places, and the body was left to rot for days, with carrion birds allowed to peck at and degrade the corpse further. The above description was excerpted from Holman Bible Dictionary. The Gospels and other accounts in the New Testament writings give us all the Biblical details we have of Jesus' crucifixion, although the Old Testament contains a number of prophetic passages concerning the Suffering Servant who "was pierced through for our transgressions, He was crushed for our iniquities; the chastening for our well-being fell upon Him, and by His scourging we are healed." (Isaiah 53:5). How could anyone be so hardened that he would not be moved by the unspeakable suffering that the Lord Jesus endured on the cross. And Pilate's question in Matthew 27:22, "Then what shall I do with Jesus who is called Christ?" has echoed in the hearts and minds of men and women for centuries, and echoes still. "What shall I do with Jesus?" One's eternal destiny pivots on these six words. --Hank |
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curious questions concerning crucifying |
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Matt 27:22
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Hank gave a very good description but I would like to add a little more.
Jesus first suffering began in the Garden of Gethsemane at which time He sweated blood. This is a rare condition known as Hematidrosis. It happens when under great emotional stress; tiny capillaries in the sweat glands can break mixing the blood with sweat. This condition alone could of produced marked weakness and possible shock.
With the soldiers striking Jesus in the face, by morning, He was battered and bruised as well as dehydrated and exhausted.
When He was scrouged He was stripped of His clothing and His hands were tied to a pole above him. The "whip" was made of several heavy leather throngs with small beads of lead attached to the ends. At first the throngs cut only through the skin. As the scrourging continues each blow cut into His back a little deeper until there was arterial bleeding from in the underlying muscles. The small beads of lead produce bruises which are broken open by subsequent blows until the entire area is just a mass of torn bleeding tissue. The beating is stopped when the centurian determines that the prisoner is close to death. He is then allowed to slump to the ground where a robe is placed upon His back and crown of thorns is pressed into His scalp. Again there is heavy bleeding due to the fact that the head is one of the most vascular places on the body. After mocking Him with His "septor" the guards take the stick from Him and begin hitting Him on the head driving the thorns deeper into His head. When they tire of this sadistic sport the robe is ripped from His back. Since it had already adhered to the clots of blood and the serum in His wounds tearing it away caused excrutiating pain (similar to that of a careless removal of a surgical bandage). This caused the wounds on His back to bleed again.
By this time He was in shock.
The nails were heavy, square and made of wrought iron. The arms are not stretched out tight and the knees are left slightly bent allowing for an up and down movement of the body. As He slowly sags down with more weight on the nails in the wrists, excruciating, fiery pains shoot along the fingers and and up the arms to explode int he brain - the nails in the wrists are putting pressure on the median nerves. As He pushes upward to avoid this torment He places His full weight on the nails in His feet. Again there is the searing agony of the nail tearing through the nerves between metatarsal bones of the feet.
At this point another phenomenon accurs. As the arms fatigue, great waves of cramps sweep over the muscles, knotting them into deep, relentless, throbbing pain. With these cramps comes the inability to push Himself upward. Hanging by His arms, the pectorial muscles are paralyzed and the intercostal muscles in the chest are unable to act. Air can be drawn into the lungs, but cannot be exhaled. Jesus fights in order to raise Himself in order to get one short breath. Finally carbon dioxide builds up in the lungs and the bloodstream and the cramps partially subside. Spasmodically, He is able to push upward to exhale and bring in the life giving oxygen. It was undoubtedly during these times that He was able to utter the seven short sentences which are recorded in the bible.
Hours of these limitless cycles of intermittent partial asphyxiation, joint-rendng cramps and excruciating pain go by as His tissue is torn from His lacerated back by the rough timber of the cross when another agony begins - a deep crushing pain in the chest as the pericardium (the sac around the heart) slowly fills with serum and begins to compress the heart.
It is now almost over. The loss of tissue fluids has reached a critical level. The compressed heart is struggling to pump heavy, thick, sluggish blood into the tissue. The tortured lungs are making a frantic effort to gasp in amall gulps of air. The markedly dehydrated tissues send their flood of messages to the brain. It is now that Jesus says "I thirst".
He is offered a sponge soaked in Posca - a sour cheap wine - and refusses. He can feel the chill of death seeping through His body.
"It is finished".
With one last surge of strength He once again pressed His torn feet agianst the nail, straightens His legs, takes His last deep breath and utters His seventh and last cry "Father, into thy hands I commit my spirit. Apparently to make sure of death, the legionnaire drove his lance through the pericardium and into the heart. John 10:32 states that "immediately there came out blood and water". Thus there was an escape of water fluid from the pericardium and the heart. We, therefore, have conclusive post death evidence that Jesus died not the usual crucifixion death of suffocation but of heart failure due to shock and constriction of the heart by fluid in the pericardium.
Parts were copied from a description by an unknown author. |
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How can Jesus be tempted if He is God? |
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Heb 4:15
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Who said that he was tempted in the garden of Gethsemane? We are talking about the Son of God knowing exactly what was going to happen to him, not only physically on the cross, but also facing the holy and infinite wrath of God the Father for the sake of all those who will trust in him. The fact that he obeyed God perfectly does not mean that it didn't cause him anguish to know that he would experience the punishment for our sins. After all, who better than God Himself to know exactly to what extent His holy wrath reaches, how horrible it must have been for someone completely holy to "become sin for us."
We may be comfortable with our sin nature and quite accustomed to it, in fact. Christ didn't have the same "luxury"; it shouldn't be surprising in the the least that a perfectly obedient Christ would nonetheless feel excruciating anguish knowing all too well the cross he was going to bear for me. I think all believers should take this into account when reading the accounts of the night before the crucifixion, and remember soberly and thankfully that this was Jesus' understanding of price that was to be paid for our salvation.
--Joe! |
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Why did He accept wine the second time? |
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John 19:30
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prayon, this question, an excellent one, brings to light one of the most poignant aspects of the crucifixion and the most crucial of all things in history -- that our blessed Lord willingly went to the cross, willingly suffered, and willingly died for all the sins of us all. He refused the first offer of sour wine, or vinegar mixed gall, because it contained an opiate to relieve pain. This He did before He was impaled to the cross. He did not drink because it would have acted to dull His senses. He must bear our sins in full consciousness. For Him it was necessary to bear the full load of man's sins with no impairment of His senses, no alleviation of His pain. When, for the second time He was offered it, He took the wine, because He knew then that "It is finished." He had done what the Father had sent Him to do. What a Savior! What a Savior! --Hank |
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Why Daniel 9:24-27? |
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Daniel
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Great question Mike! Daniel 9:24-27 speaks of the time between the decree authorizing the rebuilding of Jerusalem (v. 25) and the coming of the Messiah, which was to be 69 weeks or 483 years. The final (70th) 'week' is not mentioned until v. 27, following the prophecy of the destruction of Jerusalem by 'the people of the prince who is to come" (some see this as Titus in A.D. 70, others point to this 'prince' as the antichrist.) It is not clearly referring to the antichrist, that is only an assumption that seems to fit the facts for now. Daniel 11:31 also speaks of this and the 'abomination of desolation'. In no way do I see any reference whatsoever to a rapture here. In fact, this passage (v. 27) could be referring to Messiah instituting the new covenant and putting 'a stop' to the OT sacrificial system, since it clearly speaks of Christ (the Messiah) and His crucifixion in v. 26. But Endtime 'prophesiers' like to use this and other verses to establish future events based on an 'antichrist'. However, in several instances they are bringing meaning to the text that just is not there to begin with. |
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How was Jesus' body different? |
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Luke 24:31
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How was Jesus' resurrected body different from His body before His crucifixion? |
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Was Pilate guilty for Christ's death? |
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Matt 27:24
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Well, in one sense, obviously. Everyone is guilty for Christ's death. But I get the feeling that that isn't exactly the sense you were getting at.
I suppose Pilate does share some of the specific guilt for the crucifixion. He tried to get Christ released several times, but he did cave in to the Jews when they threatened his career. The Jews are primarily responsible (no, this doesn't make me anti-Semitic, we would have done the same thing) but Pilate is not without guilt either. He would not have executed Christ without the provokation of the Jews, but neither did he have the courage to preserve the life of an innocent man. |
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Was Pilate guilty for Christ's death? |
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Matt 27:24
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Footnote to the life of Pilate. A short time after the crucifixion of Christ, Spanish-born Pilate died in France. He committed suicide. |
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When did Jesus cry/weep? |
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NT general
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Luke 19:41 When He approached Jerusalem, He saw the city and wept over it,
On the occasion of his triumphal entry into Jerusalem the week before his crucifixion
John 11:35 Jesus wept
At the occasion of Lazarus' funeral |
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Was Jesus actually in the tomb 3 days? |
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John 19:31
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"Three days and three nights. (Matt 12:40) This phrase does not necessarily require that 72 hours elapse between Christ's death and resurrection, for the Jews reckoned part of a day to be as a whole day. Thus this prophecy can be properly fulfilled if the crucifixion occurred on Friday." (Ryrie Study Bible, Moody Press, 1976, 1978)
. . . " 'Three days and three nights' (Matt 12:40)was an emphatic way of saying 'three days,' and by Jewish reckoning this would be an apt way of expressing a period of time that includes parts of 3 days. ... All sorts of elaborate schemes have been devised to suggest that Christ might have died on a Wednesday or Thursday, just to accommodate the extreme literal meaning of these words. But the original meaning would not have required that sort of wooden interpretaion." (MacArthur Study Bible, p. 1415, Word Publishing, 1997)
. . . "THREE DAYS AND THREE NIGHTS. (Matt 12:40) Including at least part of the first day and part of the third day, a common Jewish reckoning of time." (Matt 12:40, Zondervan NASB Study Bible, Zondervan, 1999)
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Was Jesus actually in the tomb 3 days? |
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John 19:31
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Steve you have your Jewish days and nights mixed up, a Jewish calendar day starts at 6PM and run through to the next day at six PM. Example our Thursday which runs from midnight to mid night would encompass part of a Jewish Thursday night 12-6am a Jewish Thursday day 6am-6pm and part of a Jewish Friday night 6pm –midnight.
In your example it would be
Jewish start of calendar day Thursday 6pm-6am
Day 1 Thursday 6am-6pm crucifixion with death occurring at 3PM
Night 1 Friday 6pm-6am
Day 2 Friday 6am-6pm
Night 2 Saturday 6pm-6am
Day 3 Saturday 6am-6pm
Night 3 Sunday 6pm-6am
Day 4 Sunday 6am-6pm Resurrection probably occurring before 6am.
Tradition tells us it happened this way
Jewish start of calendar day Friday 6pm-6am
Day 1 Friday 6am-6pm crucifixion with death occurring at 3pm.
Night 1 Saturday 6pm-6am
Day 2 Saturday 6am-6pm
Night 2 Sunday 6pm – 6am
Day 3 Sunday 6am -6pm Resurrection occurring early after 6 am.
We seem to be missing a least one night.
For Jesus to fulfill the Old Testament Christology found in the Passover he had to died 4 days after his triumphant entry into Jerusalem. His entry was the 10 th of Nissan which it was, the day set aside for the “selection of the lambs”, his death would have to come on or just before the evening of the 14 th day the beginning of Passover. See Exodus 12. If we hold Jesus’ triumphant entry to be Palm Sunday then he had to died 4 days later which would be our Thursday, just before the beginning of the Jewish day Friday at 6PM which also would be a Passover “Sabbath” day. Followed by Saturday the weekly Passover making Sunday the first day the ladies could go to the grave to fulfill they need to further prepare Jesus’ body.
Now let all those that tell you they are not influenced by church traditions tell you why this has to be wrong.
Also see this same discussion by searching on Matthew 12:40
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