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Please explain this verse? Mark 15:34 |
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Mark 15:34
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I think the answer is found in the nature of the Trinity..Father, Son, and Holy Spirit -each unique yet completely one. While Jesus gave up much to become flesh, He was in constant communion with the other two parts of the Godhead. When, as Paul described in 2 Corinthians "He who knew no sin became sin for us" Jesus separated from the Trinity. This was necessary because of the holiness of God, but also to fulfill the need for His sacrifice for us. If Jesus experienced no sin, there would be no need for sacrifice. Jesus was, in all points tempted yet without sin, yet, He is a savior who understands the burden, the weight of sin, and He bore that for us on the cross. So, when this separation occurred, Jesus, who had never been out of touch with the Godhead, suddenly felt the lonliness, the pain that sin causes when it separates us from God. |
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Please explain this verse? Mark 15:34 |
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Mark 15:34
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I think the answer is found in the nature of the Trinity..Father, Son, and Holy Spirit -each unique yet completely one. While Jesus gave up much to become flesh, He was in constant communion with the other two parts of the Godhead. When, as Paul described in 2 Corinthians "He who knew no sin became sin for us" Jesus separated from the Trinity. This was necessary because of the holiness of God, but also to fulfill the need for His sacrifice for us. If Jesus experienced no sin, there would be no need for sacrifice. Jesus was, in all points tempted yet without sin, yet, He is a savior who understands the burden, the weight of sin, and He bore that for us on the cross. So, when this separation occurred, Jesus, who had never been out of touch with the Godhead, suddenly felt the lonliness, the pain that sin causes when it separates us from God. |
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So, not separated from the Trinity? |
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Mark 15:34
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Separated by a break in fellowship, Jesus was in constant communication with God as the earlier answer stated, but fellowship was broken because "He became sin". I can understand the concept, because of the great relationship that my wife and I have, when those rare occasions happen that we have a problem, it tears me apart. We are still one, but we are not in communion for a brief time. Now magnify that by how much the Father loves the Son more than I can love my wife, and WOW, what agony the Son must have experienced on the Cross. Remember all He has ever known in eternity is communion with the Father. |
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Blood sacrifices during the Millenium? |
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Not Specified
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I recently sat under the teaching of a DD, who stated that there would be blood sacrifices, by Christians, during the Millenium. He said there would be no other way the point the unsaved offspring of the Christians to the Cross of Jesus.
I believe that we will reign with Christ over the remainder of humanity. We will have glorified bodies, with out aging, death and sin, no sexual desires or pro-creation. Further, I believe that there will never again be blood sacrifices for the remission of sin, not even for a remerance, like communion.
Please show me where to search out scripture to refute this DD. |
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Blood sacrifices during the Millenium? |
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Heb 10:12
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I recently sat under the teaching of a DD, who stated that there would be blood sacrifices, by Christians, during the Millenium. He said there would be no other way the point the unsaved offspring of the Christians to the Cross of Jesus.
I believe that we will reign with Christ over the remainder of humanity. We will have glorified bodies, with out aging, death and sin, no sexual desires or pro-creation. Further, I believe that there will never again be blood sacrifices for the remission of sin, not even for a remerance, like communion.
Please show me where to search out scripture to refute this DD. |
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Blood sacrifices during the Millenium? |
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Heb 10:12
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Dear Nrojac, Hebrews 10:12 states, " but He, having offered one sacrifice for sins for all time, sat down at the right hand of God," This is said in other ways throughout the New Testament. For anyone to negate this teaching, it would seem the burden of proof is upon the one proposing it. I can find no reference to reinstatement of blood sacrifices, and have no reason to believe God is going to send 'Christian offspring' to hell. In Jesus
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Is Biblical literacy dead?Or is prophecy |
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Matt 11:13
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I have done some study and teaching on gifts, and I would like to add my thoughts. I hope they inspire yours. First let me give you my framework, I agree with the idea that there are different types of gifts, the ones listed in Romans 12 and the ones listed in I Cor 12. Both of these lists have prophets listed. The gifts listed in Rom 12 have been called "Motivational" gifts(Don and Katie Fortune, Discovering you God-Given Gifts). These have to do with the way the person functions in day to day life, to simplify. The list in I cor 12 are gifts given briefly for ministry, and come and go as the Spirit seems fit. This latter group are the "Charismatic" gifts of tongues, healings etc. The brief use of the gift of prophecy is what I where I would look for the test to come true but also the edifying that is spoken of elsewhere. The Rom 12 list has more to do with the makeup of the person. A prophet here is one who "sees everything as black or white", and needs "truth to be established in every situation" These prophets have always existed because that is part of the makeup of the human being. The gift of prophecy of 1 Cor 12 has to do with God moving according to His purpose. I cannot see that as ever ending either. God's purpose has been going forward since the beginning of time. I personally experienced some of these gifts and walked in them, before I understood that there was a name for them. Now my experience didn't validate the gift, because I just thought that happened to all believers that were in communion with God. The closer I walked the more that I experienced God, and the more I understood of His word, the more I realized that these were spoken of in his word. I had almost figured it out and I was introduced to an explanation from people who had studied it. When you look for prophets remember that Paul called a poet a prophet in Titus. Look at the songwriter that encourages you, that exposes wrong thinking, that exalts God, are they not part of the prophets of this day? They seem to fit Paul's definition and wasn't that what King David was, a prophet? The psalms are the songbook of Israel.
Prophets and prophecy are alive and well today, but do we have eyes to see and ears to hear?
May God richly bless all who read this. |
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What do you think of new Holman Bible? |
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NT general
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Thanks, LB Lamb, for your response. Your points of view on translations are interesting, although I must confess I'd never really thought much along the paths that your views lead me except your rejection for obvious reasons some of the less-than-orthodox versions. Holman is listed as a non-profit organization and would hardly come under the category of commerical publishers. The translation team of this Bible, some 80 in number, are half of them Baptists and half of various other communions. It seems to me, with all respect, that your criterion of rejecting a transalation that is "developed and editorially controlled primarily by denominations" would leave the Authorized Version out, because it was most assuredly a product of and for the Anglican (Church of England) communion. The name of the publication is Holman Christian Standard Bible, not Holman Baptist Bible. As with any new translation, I opt to reserve my vote until I've had ample opportunity to examine it thoroughly and carefully. For a project of this magnitude which is projected to cost some 10 to 12 million dollars, I believe it only fair to give them a chance to prove their stuff. Public acceptance of a new translation has historically been a slow process, and that's good. It took the King James Version fifty years to find its place in the sun. |
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Where is the message found? |
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1 John 1:9
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Thank you, Sam. That does help. Other than scripture itself, do you know of any other resources that I might be able to use to help others like me with this question? Every time our church has communion we are expected to sit quietly and confess all our sins to God in order to be forgiven and stay in fellowship with God. Plus, it keeps God from striking us dead for taking communion unworthily (with unconfessed sin). But then our pastor will turn right around and preach to unbelievers that all our sins are paid for at Calvary. I have spent 30 years of my life keeping short (and not-so-short) accounts with God, trying to stay in fellowship with Him. But, on the way home from church, a careless driver cuts me off and 'Raca' is the first thing out of my mouth. Suddenly, I'm out of fellowship with God again and I can't always pull over to stop and pray for God to forgive me. Then I'm haunted by 'What if I die in this car on the way home with unconfessed sin?' 1 John 1:9 has been my 'thorn in the flesh' for a long time but I know it's God's Word and that it's inspired. Thanks again for all your help. Want to be my new pastor (ha ha)?
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The inevitable BUT... |
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1 John 1:9
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I believe that there are two levels of forgiveness. (1) The LEGAL act of forgiveness that was accomplished by the shed blood of Jesus Christ and applied to our spirits upon salvation. (2) The INTIMATE act of forgiveness that restores our communion with God. I'm sure we would agree that justification indeed permanent and that we "wear" Christ's righteousness. But you are asking why would we need to be "cleansed from all unrighteousness" ... This question begs the answer that there are two different aspects to forgiveness. One involves justification and the other involves sanctification. |
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Where is the message found? |
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1 John 1:9
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Lifer, let me get in on this. I want to address two things here. First 1 Jn. 1:9. This is something all Christians should do. When we sin, it hinders our fellowship with God. The meaning of confess is to agree with God. When we confess our sins to God, we are agreeing with Him that what we did or didn't do is wrong, like He says it is, and that we now agree with Him on it. All our sin was paid for on the cross, but we still have to confess our sinfulness to Him and call upon His as Savior (Rom. 10:9-10) before we can be saved. The main problem with unconfessed sin is the consequences we face here in this life and that goes farther than lost followship, you can cut off your arm, and be forgiven for it, but you want have an arm anymore. So we confess our sin to put ourselves in agreement with God and to help us see more clearly the area's of our lives we need to work and get His help. Cmpare also the teaching of Jesus to Peter in John 13:1-15, esp. verse 10.
The second is the Lord's supper or communion. I think there is a bad error in our teaching here. In the context of 1 Cor. 11, Paul is pretty much scolding them about the big parties they had turned the Lord's supper into and the factions and groups that had come out of it. Remember also the problems they had the gifts of the Spirit and spiritual pride. When he tells them they are partaking in an unworthy manner, he is not talking about that they hadn't confessed every known sin, but rather the actual way they were serving the supper. Notice verse 29:
(1 Cor 11:29) "For he who eats and drinks in an unworthy manner eats and drinks judgment to himself, not discerning the Lord's body."
Not discerning the Lord's body. The Lord's body is one, not many groups and factions, as they had split into. Also discerning the Lord's body is understanding why He died on the cross for our sins and shed His blood. We cannot come to the Lord's table on our own merit, even if we could confess every sin we had committed since the last time we confessed to Him, and we can't, we still would not be worthy to stand before Him. But when we come to the table, understanding that the only way we are worthy is because He took our sin and imparted to us His righteousness, 2 Cor. 5:21, and He secured this for us by giving Himself on the cross, then we can partake at the table in a worthy manner. I don't see any problem with confessing any sin you know of before the Lord's supper, but do not think you are worthy because you have done so. Know that you are only worthy because Christ is in you, and you stand by His blood and His righteousness.
Notice also verse 31, "For if we would judge ourselves, we would not be judged."
How do we judge ourselves-- not worthy of what He has done. But when by faith we stand "in Him", God sees us in the righteousness of Jesus, and we are then worthy in God's eyes.
So let us never be remiss in confessing our sin, 1 John 1:9, but let us never forget that we can stand before God only because of what Jesus has done for us.
Hope this helps.
later...wdc
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Is fellowship with God conditional? |
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1 John 1:9
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Thanks for your response. I have a question about a statement you made. You said, "When we sin, it hinders our fellowship with God." What does this mean? What is fellowship with God? I see in Rom 6:23 that 'the wages of sin is death.' As I understand it, when I sin (and, unfortunately, I still do) I deserve death. James says that if I've broken the least of the commandments, I've broken them all. Where does the Bible negate Rom 6:23 and state that, for the Christian, the wages of sin is broken fellowship. Even 1 John 1:9 DOESN'T say, "If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to restore fellowship." Please don't think I'm trying to be argumentative. I appreciate what you said in your reply. Especially about taking communion. But we're not generally taught this view. I agree that we stand before a holy God only because of what God has done. But I want fellowship with Him. I want to 'know' Him. And if I'm always bouncing in and out of fellowship with God (because of my sin), how can I be secure in my relationship? Is being in fellowship totally dependant upon me and my confession? Thanks. |
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How is comunion only symbolic? |
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1 Cor 11:29
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Here is another view of communion which, I believe, scripture supports:
1) Some of the Corinthian Christians were coming to the fellowship suppers and eating up most of the food and getting drunk on the wine. Paul is trying to correct this 'unworthy manner.' They were not recongizing the body of Christ. Now, think this through:
2) When Christ was physically on earth, He had a flesh and blood body. At what we call the Lord's supper, He took a loaf of bread (representing His 1 physical body) and broke it into many pieces. The disciples ate these many pieces of bread. The bread (symbolizing His body) was no longer one loaf. It was now broken and inside every one of the disciples. After His resurrection, He is now in heaven seated at the right hand of God the Father. Where is His body now? Well, physically it is in heaven. But, spiritually WE are the body of Christ. Believers indwelt by Him constitute His earthly body until He returns. He is the head. If you want to see the body of Christ in 2001 (unless He returns), look for Christians. As His body, we should respect one another because Christ dwells in each and every believer.
2) So, if, when we gather together for fellowship, we eat up all the food and drink up all the ..um, beverages, others will go hungry and thirsty. This is not properly recognizing (in this present age) the Body of Christ. We are to serve one another as Christ served. If we don't, others, Christians and non-Christians will judge us and say, "Look at those Christians, they don't act any different from the world. They only look out for their own needs." Paul summarizes this at the end of the chapter - 1 Cor 11:33 So then, my brethren, when you come together to eat, wait for one another.
1 Cor 11:34 If anyone is hungry, let him eat at home, so that you will not come together for judgment. The remaining matters I will arrange when I come.
3) The wine represents the blood of the new covenant. This new covenant went into effect at Christ's death and states in Heb 10:17 "AND THEIR SINS AND THEIR LAWLESS DEEDS
I WILL REMEMBER NO MORE."
Heb 10:18 Now where there is forgiveness of these things, there is no longer any offering for sin.
Yet, most Christians sit, trying to remember all their sins so they can confess them to God before they partake of the cup. Is this faith in what Christ has done at the cross? Christ said, "This cup represents the NEW COVENANT in My blood." The new covenant says God no longer remembers our sins because Christ took them away. So why do we remember what God says He doesn't? God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not holding men's sins against them. We think confession bring forgiveness when only Christ blood, shed 2000 years ago, provided forgiveness. Nothing we do can ever make us 'worthy.' Only Christ blood makes us worthy. And it is no longer flowing. But it did flow at Calvary. Without the shedding of blood, there is no forgiveness. So why do we ask for more forgiveness than what Christ provided at the cross?
I hope this helps your understanding of communion. |
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real presence? |
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1 Cor 11:29
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The widely held view among Protestants is that the elements of communion, the bread and the cup, are symbols of Christ's body and blood, thus the view that neither the Corinthian passagenor any other Scripture supports the literal-body view. The dogma known as transubstantation, endemic to Roman Catholic and Eastern Orthodox communions, teaches that the eucharistic elements at their consecration become the body and blood of Christ while keeping only the appearance of bread and wine. A strong argument for the Protestant point of view is given by Christ Himself at His institution of the Lord's Supper. The account recorded in Matthew 26:26-29 with parallel passages in the other two synopic gospels.Verse 26 reads as follows: "While they were eating, Jesus took some bread, and after a blessing, He broke it and gave it to the disciples, and said, "Take, eat, this is My body." He did the same thing with the cup, calling it His blood. The evidence is overwhelming that the disciples ate bread and drank the fruit of the vine. They did not physically partake of His body nor drink any of His blood. The view that virtually all Protestant faiths have taken for centuries is that this is symbolism and nothing else. A reading of the entire 1 Corinthian letter, by the way, may lead one to interpret this passage on the Lord's Supper in the light that some members of the Corinthian church were profaning the sanctity of the church by holding secular feasts and exhibiting behavior unbecoming to believers. Some New Testament scholars, by the way, see "body" in your reference as being the church, the body of Christ. Hank |
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real presence or symbolic presence? |
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1 Cor 10:16
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Dear dschaertel, It seems that you are trying to make the Lord's supper into either full mystical transubstantiation, or a mere symbol. The scriptures support much more than a mere symbol, and never attempt to suggest a physical transmutation. Partaking in the Lord's Supper is a spiritual reality, with spiritual consequences in this life. This is imputed by the Holy Spirit when accompanied by the faith of the believer that he is participating again in the communion with Christ. It is commanded of us, and imparts true, real blessing upon those who receive in faith. In the same manner, false motives will impart real danger to the unholy partaker. However, it is not like an Indiana Jones movie, with instantaneous effect. God's timing is God's timing.
Blessings in Christ Jesus, charis |
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Can one who commits suicide be saved? |
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Ex 20:13
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Mel, you mistake "love" for a feeling and do not realize that it's an action. Are you married? Do you have children? Are there not times when you are angry and frustrated with the people you love? Love is an action, and Christ's love is with us regardless of how we feel ... even in extreme depression. As for the Psalms and the Lord's act of perfecting that which concerns Him, this is purely eschatological! When are we perfected, Mel? In this life, or the next? As for the "unforgiveable sin," stating that it's "unforgiveness" is bad exegesis. Look at the parallel passages in context (Mark 3:28-29; Luke 12:10; Matthew 12:31-32). The nature of the sin involves attributing the obvious power of the Holy Spirit to Satan and is an established mindset and attitude, not a period of momentary doubt. (If anyone is concerned about whether they've committed the sin or not, they probably haven't.) As for forgiveness, there are two levels of forgiveness: one practical and one intimate. We are ultimately and legally forgiven of our sins (the permanent imputation of Christ's righteousness to our account), but we are also, on a more intimate and personal level, forgiven when we confess our sins before the Father and seek the reestablishment of communion with God. |
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Communion, how often? |
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1 Cor 11:25
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Saints, How often should communion be taken (received), and why? I understand that there no absolutes mentioned in the Bible, but I would like to hear some ideas.
In Christ Jesus, charis |
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Communion, how often? |
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1 Cor 11:25
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When it comes to how many times we should have the Lord's Supper during the course of one year I find there is no agreement among Christians. In out church (Dutch Reformed) we have the Lord's Supper 2 Sunday in March,June, September, December and Good Friday-so that adds up to five times a year-I personally would like to have it more often-but in our church Communion is a big event-the week before Communion there is a sermon preached to prepare us for coming Communion-we also read a long theological tract titled "Celebration Of The Lord's Supper"-in our church we practice close communion-we bar the Lord's Supper from unbelievers and children-we stress before the bread and wine are passed out that one must take heed to the warnings of the apostle Paul concerning the serious of partaking of the Lord's Supper if one is living in sin etc. . .-Communion Sunday is a long service-so maybe it is good to have it five times a year-I suppose we (Dutch Reformed) have a high mystical view of the Lord's Supper where as others take a light view of the Lord's Supper and do not make a big deal of it and treat it like a picnic. |
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Communion, how often? |
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1 Cor 11:25
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I believe that Communion is a sacred event that should be executed with the utmost humility and seriousness where a saint reflects on life and makes amends for anything that separates them from God. By sharing in Communion, we are taking sharing in the Body and Blood of our Lord Jesus, which is not something that should be taken 'lightly' but with the highest sincerity! Some churches have it almost every single Sunday. I attend a Conservative Mennonite Church where we have Communion twice a year- at Easter and in the Fall. We also wash each other's feet after we take the bread and drink the cup. If Communion ever becomes less than a sacred event that loses its seriousness or meaning where we fail to reflect on our own individual personal relationships with Him, then it is being done way too often. However, Communion must be done often enough for the people to be able to reflect on their lives and be ready to take part in the sharing of Communion with a solemn and humble heart to our Lord. |
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Women involved? |
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1 Cor 11:25
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Dear Nolan Keck, I appreciate your answer. I think that a foot-washing afterward is beautiful. One question: are women involved in this communion and footwashing?
In Jesus' name, charis |
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Communion, how often? |
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1 Cor 11:25
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Dear JonnyRay, A great answer! I agree about the exclusion of unbelievers and children. I understand not wanting to offend people, but it is ludicrous to share that which is holy with a nonbeliever. Also, wanting to 'bless' kids is one thing, but often these kids grow up with no respect for communion because of familiarity. Thank you for your reply.
In Christ Jesus, charis |
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Weekly Communion? |
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1 Cor 11:25
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Saints, How about some churches that celebrate communion weekly. Why? |
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Weekly Communion? |
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1 Cor 11:25
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There is no mention in the bible on how often we should partake of the Lord's Supper or Communion.
Just as there is many different views as to what you are partaking of, (ie., for catholics the elements become the blood and body of Christ, for Lutherans they take on the characteristics, for Presbyterians they have no physical changes but have spiritual changes and for the Baptists it is all symbolic) different religions interpret how often you should partake of it. Sorry I couldn't give you a more definitive answer. prayon |
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Communion, how often? |
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1 Cor 11:25
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Charis, since Jesus said only "as often as you do this" it should be in remembrance of Him, one would be hard pressed, it seems to me, to attach any mandatory time schedule to the sacred ordinance. There are those communions who observe the Lord's Supper weekly or even more frequently. There are others who observe it less frequently, perhaps monthly or quarterly. In the church I attend, it is the view that too frequent an observance runs the risk of causing it to become merely a routine observance, mechanical and diluted in meaning. When we observe the Lord's Supper, the entire service -- the music, the pastor's message, everything -- is dedicated to this one ordinance of our Lord. It is beautiful and truly meaningful. --Hank |
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Wash one another's feet? |
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John 13:14
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please check Jn 13:5-17 we tend to do it when we take communion. will search for other answers |
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Women involved? |
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1 Cor 11:25
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Hello again charis.. Yes, the women are involved with the foot washing but the men wash one another's feet while the women wash each other's feet. This is a beautiful act of servanthood immediately after Communion and I had the blessed opportunity to wash two of my brother's feet! One of which was my first cousin, Neil, whom I enjoyed coming to a faith in Christ over the past 3 years! We hugged each other and are much closer now as brothers then we ever were as cousins! Foot washing in my church is an integral part of Communion. But everything is undertaken with a sense of humility and servanthood, and it would not have the same meaning to go through this so many times a year. |
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Weekly Communion? |
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1 Cor 11:25
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In my translation - New Revised Standard life Application Bible - it has a footnote to verse Acts 20:7 that states "a fellowship dinner- much like a potluck supper was eaten before the Lord's supper was celebrated with the breaking of bread and the drinking of the cup". I'm not sure that this does specifically say that they did communion every week or not. "As often as possible" could also be taken to mean everyday. Luke 22:19 and 1Cor 11:24 say simply "do this in remembrance of me". 1Cor11:25 says "do this, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of me". As I stated before there is no right answer as to how often. It all depends how your particular denomination believes. |
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Agree now? |
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Bible general Archive 1
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The Apostles' Creed
I believe in God, the Father almighty,
creator of heaven and earth.
I believe in Jesus Christ, his only son, our Lord.
He was conceived by the power of the Holy Spirit and born of the Virgin Mary.
He suffered under Pontius Pilate, was crucified, died, and was buried.
He descended to the dead.
On the third day he rose again.
He ascended into heaven, and is seated at the right hand of the Father.
He will come again to judge the living and the dead.
I believe in the Holy Spirit,
the holy catholic Church,
the communion of saints,
the forgiveness of sins,
the resurrection of the body,
and the life everlasting. Amen.
Would you agree with this? In an older translation where this one says
"He descended to the dead." It would say, "descended into hell". So a modern translation of the Creed of St. Athanasius might say dead instead of hell. Would you agree then? But I suppose from what you say that you would not agree with this prayer,
O God the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, our only Savior, the Prince of Peace: Give us grace seriously to lay to heart the great dangers we are in by our unhappy divisions; take away all hatred and prejudice, and whatever else may hinder us from godly union and concord; that, as there is but one Body and one Spirit, one hope of our calling, one Lord, one Faith, one Baptism, one God and Father of us all, so we may be all of one heart and of one soul, united in one holy bond of truth and peace, of faith and charity, and may with one mind and one mouth glorify thee; through Jesus Christ our Lord. Amen.
Yours in Christ Jesus, wist ye not
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Communion, how often? |
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1 Cor 11:25
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Of course unbelievers should be excluded, as it is a sacrament of the church. We do communion about once a month in my church, but sometimes I would like to see it done more often. I am torn on whether it would breed disrespect due to familiarity or not, but I myself enjoy celebrating both the communion with our Lord Jesus as well as the communion with my brothers and sisters in Christ. |
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