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Diotrephes a church dictator? |
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3 John
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Was Diotrephes a church 'dictator'? What characterizes a church dictator? |
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Diotrephes a church dictator? |
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3 John
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Nolan, He is something else
Diotrephes (Strong 1361) means nourished by Jove.
-he wanted to be first (v 9a)
-he will not listening (v 9b)
-he is a malicious gossip (v 10a)
-he has lack of hospitality (v 10b)
-he kicks to the hospitality committee (v 10c)
-A dictator has the ability to kick people out of church, at his whim and not following Matthew 18. -Verse 9 does not just apply to dicators.
-His gossiping should of got him his due (2Th 3:11-15), but, it may be he had too much power.
-Hospitality is something even the pagans followed.
There are churches that are rulled by the pastor, some good and others bad - like this church and one I went to, twice.
People just followed him like stupid sheep. I pronounced anathama to him, in private and I thought he got the message - that he was preaching another gospel. I did it in public the next Sunday, when he continued.
We left our previous church because our pastor refused to step down after the elders asked him to. The church is co |
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Diotrephes a church dictator? |
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3 John
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I appreciate such a detailed answer again, Steve! :)
Your situation with your church sounds interesting, but tragic. We can only pray that the people will actually READ their Bibles and begin to discern the truth about all the lies that had been fed to them through the preacher/dictator that you mentioned. It is amazing that he refused to step down, even without the support of the church!
Your Brother in Christ,
Nolan |
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Did God create evil? |
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3 John 1:11
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If God created everything, and evil was found in Lucifer,then does it follow that God created evil? If God did not create evil,then who did? And does it then follow that God is not the creator of everything? |
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Did God create evil? |
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3 John 1:11
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Greetings,
This is a tough question. My short answer would be this: Evil is not a thing that can be created. Rather, evil is the choice to disobey God's law. Evil is a natural possibility where choices are really available.
Tim Moran |
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Did God create evil? |
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3 John 1:11
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Cephas: No, God did not create evil. Who did? No one did. To reason that if God did not create evil, then He is not the creator of everything is a new and strange kind of logic I am not familiar with. The Bible specifically says in plain English that God IS the Creator of everything that was created. Nowhere does the Bible say or imply that evil is a created thing.
"Evil originates not from God but from the fallen creature. I agree with John Calvin, who wrote,
"'It is helpful, I think, to understand that sin is not itself a thing created. Sin is neither substance, being, spirit, nor matter. So it is technically not proper to think of sin as something that was created. Sin is simply a want of moral perfection in a fallen creature. Fallen creatures themselves bear full responsibility for their sin. And all evil in the universe emanates from the sins of fallen creatures.
"For example, Romans 5:12 says that death entered the world because of sin. Death, pain, disease, stress, exhaustion, calamity, and all the bad things that happen came as a result of the entrance of sin into the universe (see Genesis 3:14-24). All those evil effects of sin continue to work in the world and will be with us as long as sin is.'"
For further study see:
Jay Adams, The Grand Demonstration (Santa Barbara CA: Eastgate,1991).
Copyright 2000 Grace to You
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Did God create evil? |
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3 John 1:11
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Morant61: You are to be commended. You hit the nail on the head and got right to the heart of this question when you wrote: Evil is not a thing that can be created.
"Evil originates not from God but from the fallen creature. I agree with John Calvin, who wrote,
"'It is helpful, I think, to understand that sin is not itself a thing created. Sin is neither substance, being, spirit, nor matter. So it is technically not proper to think of sin as something that was created.'"
For further study see:
Jay Adams, The Grand Demonstration (Santa Barbara CA: Eastgate,1991).
Copyright 2000 Grace to You
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isaiah 45:7 |
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3 John 1:11
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JVHO212. could you please tell me what ISAIAH 45:7
means? in the kjv GOD says that he creates evil. |
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isaiah 45:7 |
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3 John 1:11
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Buf: Occasionally someone will quote Isaiah 45:7 (KJV) and claim it proves God made evil as a part of His creation: "I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things" (emphasis added).
But the New American Standard Bible gives the sense of Isaiah 45:6-7 more clearly: "There is no one besides Me. I am the Lord, and there is no other, the One forming light and creating darkness, causing well-being and creating calamity; I am the Lord who does all these." In other words, God devises calamity as a judgment for the wicked. But in no sense is He the author of evil.
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Did God create evil? |
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3 John 1:11
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Cephas: Question: Did God create evil?
Answer (full): No. "Scripture says that when God finished His creation, He saw everything and declared it "very good" (Genesis 1:31). Many Scriptures affirm that God is not the author of evil: "God cannot be tempted by evil, and He Himself does not tempt anyone" (James 1:13). "God is light, and in Him there is no darkness at all" (1 John 1:5). "God is not the author of confusion" (1 Corinthians 14:33)--and if that is true, He cannot in any way be the author of evil.
"Occasionally someone will quote Isaiah 45:7 (KJV) and claim it proves God made evil as a part of His creation: "I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things" (emphasis added).
"But the New American Standard Bible gives the sense of Isaiah 45:6-7 more clearly: "There is no one besides Me. I am the Lord, and there is no other, the One forming light and creating darkness, causing well-being and creating calamity; I am the Lord who does all these." In other words, God devises calamity as a judgment for the wicked. But in no sense is He the author of evil.
"Evil originates not from God but from the fallen creature. I agree with John Calvin, who wrote,
". . . the Lord had declared that "everything that he had made . . . was exceedingly good" [Gen. 1:31]. Whence, then comes this wickedness to man, that he should fall away from his God? Lest we should think it comes from creation, God had put His stamp of approval on what had come forth from himself. By his own evil intention, then, man corrupted the pure nature he had received from the Lord; and by his fall drew all his posterity with him into destruction. Accordingly, we should contemplate the evident cause of condemnation in the corrupt nature of humanity--which is closer to us--rather than seek a hidden and utterly incomprehensible cause in God's predestination. [Institutes, 3:23:8]
"It is helpful, I think, to understand that sin is not itself a thing created. Sin is neither substance, being, spirit, nor matter. So it is technically not proper to think of sin as something that was created. Sin is simply a want of moral perfection in a fallen creature. Fallen creatures themselves bear full responsibility for their sin. And all evil in the universe emanates from the sins of fallen creatures.
"For example, Romans 5:12 says that death entered the world because of sin. Death, pain, disease, stress, exhaustion, calamity, and all the bad things that happen came as a result of the entrance of sin into the universe (see Genesis 3:14-24). All those evil effects of sin continue to work in the world and will be with us as long as sin is.
"First Corinthians 10:13 promises us that God will not permit a greater trial than we can bear. And James 1:13 tells us that God will not tempt us with evil.
"God is certainly sovereign over evil. There's a sense in which it is proper even to say that evil is part of His eternal decree. He planned for it. It did not take Him by surprise. It is not an interruption of His eternal plan. He declared the end from the beginning, and He is still working all things for His good pleasure (Isaiah 46:9-10).
"But God's role with regard to evil is never as its author. He simply permits evil agents to work, then overrules evil for His own wise and holy ends. Ultimately He is able to make all things--including all the fruits of all the evil of all time--work together for a greater good (Romans 8:28)."
For further study:
Jay Adams, The Grand Demonstration (Santa Barbara CA: Eastgate,1991).
Copyright 2000 Grace to You
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Is God responsible for choices? |
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3 John 1:11
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If God created us to have the choice to do good or evil, does it not follow that God is responsible for the available choices including evil? |
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Is God responsible for choices? |
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3 John 1:11
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God won't allow evil to have control of his kingdom. The devil won't win, but he fights hard. We always have choices, and God will make clear the best choice if we pray and seek His answers. |
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More Info on Beliefs |
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3 John 1:11
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Hey Tim,
I've just finished reading all (and I mean all of them, not all kinds:-) of your posts, and I am quite impressed with your knowledge and your ability to express your views clearly! I was wondering what other beliefs you hold, say about end times or anything else. I applaud you for your patience and thoroughness when involved in discussions with the Reformed folks. I have not been quite as succesful myself, I am ashamed to say.
I wanted to ask you a few more questions:
1. Rom. 9:19-21: I can adequately interpret all the other verses in this chapter assuming the Arminian point of view, but these three verses give me trouble. What's your take? (I know you wrote 60 pages, so a summary will suffice! I can work around these verses if I try, but it is not as you so eliquantly say, the most natural, clear reading. By the by, I do not ascribe to Arminianism, but I am certainly bent toward that direction when compared to 5-point Calvinists. I suppose I am a Election/Responsibility person, which means they're both true but only GOD knows how.)
2. I noticed your know-how with Greek. I was wondering what some of the best resources are? I have just purchased the "Key Word Study Bible" and the "Complete WordStudy Bible CD" both edited by Spiros Zodhiates. Have you seen these works? Any opinions? (The theology may not suit you, and it is quite prevalent, but the language info is worth it, in my opinion, but then Dr. Z is not that far from my beliefs.) Final note on this work, it is not as typical as you might think of an evangelical work, you had a question on I Tim 2:12, Dr. Z is quite adament about the fact that I Tim 2:11,12 should be wife and husband, rather than man, woman. And he is quite convincing, I never realized how ignorant I was just using the Strongs concordance!(I would have fought to the death that this verse COULD NEVER mean 'wife' but a little time with a better understanding of Greek and I've changed my mind!) The language is so much more than just the root words!(Voice, Mood, etc.)
3. Would you consider yourself Charismatic or Conservative? I don't want to get to personal, so if your not comfortable with this one, thats OK. I'm quite conservative, but I certainly desire a close relationship with my Lord. |
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More Info on Beliefs |
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3 John 1:11
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Greetings Chris!
If you read all of my posts, you sure are a glutton for punishment! :-)
Thanks for the kind words! The shortest way to list my beliefs would probably be to use common labels: I hold to a: Arminian, Pre-Wrath-Millenial Eschotology, Evangelical Theology. Through the years, I have had contact with many different theological bents (my Father-in-Law is an American Baptist Pastor.) Because of this, I have learned that many good Christian people have differing views on certain topics. I think it was JVHO212, who dealt with the issue of historic Chrisianity in one of his posts. He made an excellent point. There are core beliefs that define Christianity. In those core beliefs, there can be no debate. In all else, we can gracefully agree to disagee.
1a) Rom. 9:19-21: Romans is a wonderful book. From my study of it, I have developed the following interpretive paradigm. The main issue in Romans is this: Why are Gentiles being saved, while Jews are not? The Jewish nation had a tremendous amount of pride in their status as "God's choosen nation." This pride turned into an assumption that they were automatically "right" with God. In Romans, Paul destroys this believe. In chapter one, He argues that God's wrath is revealed against all pagans who have exchanged the truth of God for a lie (1:25). Every Jew reading this would have been saying, "Amen...Paul!" But, in chapter two, Paul includes the Jews under God's wrath for their violation of the Law God had given them. Consequently, according to Romans 3, all have fallen short of the glory of God.
He the goes on to argue in chapter 4 through 8 that salvation is obtained only through faith in Christ, not by works.
Chapters 9-11, focus specifically on the question of Israel's rejection of Christ. Has God failed in His promises to Israel? Of course not, Paul replies! You haven't understood His promises to begin with:
a) Israel is an Israel of promise not of birth - Rom. 9:1-9.
b) God has the sovereign right to extend His mercy to whomever His wishes - Rom. 9:10-29.
So my short answer concerning Rom. 9:19-21, would be this: Israel (the clay) has no right to complain about how the potter (God) chooses to use them (the nation.) His purpose, according to Rom. 11:32 is clear, "For God has bound all men over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all."
1b) In my opinion, the views of people like Robert Shank or Hank Hanagraf(?) are views that do justice to both election and responsibilty. I would highly recommend their writings.
2) I am very familiar with Dr. Zodhites(?). I have the utmost respect for his works. I'm not sure what the best resources are, there are so many. You need a good text (I used the UBS Greek text). You need a good lexicon or dictionary. The best is probably Kittel's, but it is very expensive. Good commentaries, which deal with the orginal text, are also helpful. Someone else might have some helpful suggestions as well. I have never used the Complete WordStudy Bible CD. I currently use the Logos Systems Bible program.
3) I would consider myself conservative, but I do believe in the present ministry of the Holy Spirit in the life of believers (including the gifts.)
Your Brother in Christ |
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More Info on Beliefs |
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3 John 1:11
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Human responsibility, divine sovereignty - both true.
Chris: Amen. You write: "I suppose I am a Election/Responsibility person, which means they're both true but only GOD knows how.)" On this I could not agree with you more! (Although I would have to say that there can be no middle ground between Calvinism and Arminianism, two mutually exclusive belief systems.)
The Bible affirms human responsibility right alongside the doctrine of divine sovereignty. It seems proponents of both extremes do not or will not understand this clear teaching of the Bible.
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