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Results from: Notes
On or After: Fri 10/23/15 Ordered by Date
Results Type Verse Author Date ID#
1 Primary Categories of Scripture Note Luke 24:27 DocTrinsograce Sat 10/22/16, 11:24am 243804
  "Christ is... the principal end of the whole of Scripture... This principle is always to be retained in our minds in reading of the Scripture, -- namely, that the revelation and doctrine of the person of Christ and His office, is the foundation whereon all other instructions of the prophets and apostles for the edification of the church are built, and whereunto they are resolved... So our Lord Jesus Christ himself at large makes it manifest, Luke 24:26-27, 45, 46. Lay aside the consideration hereof, and the Scriptures are no such thing as they pretend unto, -- namely, a revelation of the glory of God in the salvation of the church..." --John Owen (1616-1683)

2 Good Works Rooted in Commandments Note Matt 19:17 DocTrinsograce Sat 10/22/16, 7:25am 243803
  "The first thing to know is that there are no good works except those works God has commanded, just as there is no sin except that which God has forbidden. Therefore, whoever wants to know what good works are as well as doing them needs to know nothing more than God's commandments. Thus in Matthew 19[:17] Christ says, 'If you would enter life, keep the commandments.' And when the young man in Matthew 19[:16–22] asks what he should do to inherit eternal life, Christ sets before him nothing else but the Ten Commandments. Accordingly, we have to learn to recognize good works from the commandments of God [John 14:15, 21; 15:10], and not from the appearance, size, or number of the works themselves, nor from the opinion of men or of human law or custom, as we see has happened and still happens because of our blindness and disregard of the divine commandments." --Martin Luther (1483-1546)

3 Righteousness Imputed! Note Dan 9:7 DocTrinsograce Fri 10/21/16, 2:13pm 243802
  "Christ gives His own all that Moses demands of his own." -- Petrus Dathenus (1531-1688)

4 Do demons exist today? Note Bible general Beja Thu 10/20/16, 2:32pm 243801


5 Primary Categories of Scripture Note Luke 24:27 DocTrinsograce Thu 10/20/16, 2:10pm 243800
  "The Old and New Testaments are reducible to these two primary heads. The Old promises Christ to come and the New testifies that he has come." --William Ames (1576-1633)

6 The Power of God Available to His Own Note Ps 118:6 DocTrinsograce Thu 10/20/16, 1:55pm 243799
  "Saints should consider the power of God as available for them. They should impress it upon their souls until all their doubts and fears are silenced…. The apostle teaches: 'I will never leave you nor forsake you' (Hebrews 13:5). Every believer may boldly say, 'God will help,' not 'perhaps He will.' We may boldly assert it before men and devils because the Almighty said it. Our obedience and comfort become strong or weak according to our faith in this principle... He who sees himself folded in almighty arms, O how he mounts up before the wind with his sails filled with joy and peace! Let storms arise, this one may sing merrily with the sharpest thorn at his breast." --William Gurnall (1617-1679) from his "The Christian in Complete Armor"
7 Do demons exist today? Note Bible general EdB Thu 10/20/16, 12:24pm 243798
Okay a starting place.
I think we all agree that Christians should not intentionally sin, more over sin of any kind gives Satan and the consequences of that sin an opportunity to destroy us.

The question was posed can a Christian be demon possessed. My initial reaction and perhaps I should have stayed there, was no a Christian can not be demon possessed, only demon oppressed.

However I think it was you that made the statement that you were not sure a Christian can not be demon possessed and that got me researching.

The first scripture I came to was Leviticus 19:31 (NKJV)
31 'Give no regard to mediums and familiar spirits; do not seek after them, to be defiled by them: I am the LORD your God.

The word defiled jumped out at me. Admittedly this is not speaking to Christians but rather to faithful followers of God. It says don’t open yourself to mediums or familiar(demonic) spirits lest you become defiled by them. Implication here is this opens a door to demonic possession.

To me Leviticus 20:6 (NKJV)
6 'And the person who turns to mediums and familiar spirits, to prostitute himself with them, I will set My face against that person and cut him off from his people.
Reinforces my take away of Lev 19:4.

The second verse then referenced was 2 Corinthians 11:3-4 (NASB)
3 But I am afraid that, as the serpent deceived Eve by his craftiness, your minds will be led astray from the simplicity and purity of devotion to Christ.
4 For if one comes and preaches another Jesus whom we have not preached, or you receive a different spirit which you have not received, or a different gospel which you have not accepted, you bear this beautifully.

Admittedly I gave the wrong reference in my last post to you, sorry!
In the verse depending on translation say different or another. Which implies the audience already has received a spirit. Since this verse is talking to Christians and says you can receive a different or another spirit other from a different or profane gospel.

Implication here is that a Christian can receive ungodly or false spirits (demons?).

As to drugs, alcohol and other sin we see in
1 Peter 5:8-9 (NKJV)
8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil walks about like a roaring lion, seeking whom he may devour.
9 Resist him, steadfast in the faith, knowing that the same sufferings are experienced by your brotherhood in the world.

We are to be sober and vigilant. I think we all can agree we are not totally sober nor can we be vigilant we are involved in drugs, alcohol, or other forms of addiction and sin. It further warns us that Satan is walking about seeking. While it does not specifically say in so many words I interpret this as giving an opening to Satan to come in and destroy our lives. Here again I think we can all agree that demon possession would probably ruin our lives.

I believe we have portals to our spirit mind. Our ears, our ears, our physical minds, these I believe must be guarded as Paul admonished us in Philippians 4:8-9 (NKJV)
8 Finally, brethren, whatever things are true, whatever things are noble, whatever things are just, whatever things are pure, whatever things are lovely, whatever things are of good report, if there is any virtue and if there is anything praiseworthy--meditate on these things.
9 The things which you learned and received and heard and saw in me, these do, and the God of peace will be with you.

Interestingly the verse before this Philippians 4:6-7 (NKJV)
6 Be anxious for nothing, but in everything by prayer and supplication, with thanksgiving, let your requests be made known to God;
7 and the peace of God, which surpasses all understanding, will guard your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus. Suggests that the peace of God guards our heart and minds through Christ Jesus.

Again if your heart and minds are not on Christ Jesus the implication to me is we have opened ourselves for an attack from Satan.

To clarify something that may have been misunderstood, I never meant to suggest that only certain sins opened us to demonic attack but that there were some listed specifically that to me implies they become gateways for demons. Like messing with the occult, familiar spirits, mediums, drugs, alcohol, addictions of any kind.

I hope that explains or clarifies my position. I am still not totally convinced that a Christian can be demon possessed but I am not so positive that it can’t happen that I would not consider the possibility. That is something that in the past I would have never considered.
8 Do demons exist today? Note Bible general Beja Thu 10/20/16, 8:10am 243797

Response to post 243796.

I shall go even a little further and I will respond with what I THINK you said in post 243788 which has me confused and then tell you what I think I hear in the verses you shared. This way you can best identify where I am going wrong. To ease my copy and paste efforts I'm backing up and making this a reply to post 788.

So you said,

"To clarify I believe there actions both Christians and non Christian can do that give Satan access into their lives. I am not talk about sinning as such but rather things that open our spirit being to attack."

So not sin in general, but specific sins are central to "opening" ourselves to demonic attack.

Then you identified these sins as messing with the occult, mediums, tarot card readings, ouija boards, drugs, and alcohol.

1.) So the first thing I'm looking to be explained/substantiated in the verses is that the bible teaches that these specific things, and not sin in general are the avenues through which spirits are allowed to attack us.

Moving on, you also said, "what defines a Christian the name or a behavior within them or the fact they have closed all e trances into their being except those that Christ Himself opens." Which ofcourse you defined as participation in the aforementioned specific sins.

Then you fleshed this idea out by saying, "I believe to truly be a Christians we must be active in protecting the portals of our mind giving access to only to the things of God."

2.) So the next thing I'm looking for in the verses you supplied, is what is the relationship of obstaining from these to being Christian. Are you saying that obstaining makes you a Christian? That God will see to it that a saved person will therefore not do these things? What?

So I come to the verses for answers to these two questions. Here is my take away on the verses.

2 Cor 11:4 You are indulging preachers of a false gospel/Jesus when you shouldn't be.

Lev 19:31 Do not consult mediums or necromancers and if you do you will become unclean.

Lev 20:6 Messing with these things causes you to be an enemy of God and seperated from God's people.

So though these verses mention a couple of the sins you spoke of, nowhere do these verses explain anything about your specific assertions. They dont' seem to me to be saying that these specific sins are the very precise avenues by which we open ourselves to demonic attack. More, they say nothing at all about drugs and alcohol. Nor do they explain to me precisely how these things relate to being a Christian so that I know what you mean when you say obstaining from these is what "defines a Christian."

I hope this clarifies my confusion.

In Christ, Beja

9 Do demons exist today? Note Bible general EdB Wed 10/19/16, 7:03pm 243796
  In an effort to help make what I'm trying to say more clear to you, I need for you to tell me what you understand these passages to be saying.

It appears clear to me but evidently not to you, so please explain to me what these passages are saying to you and I think it can help clear up this confusion
10 The Centrality of Worship Note Lam 3:41 DocTrinsograce Wed 10/19/16, 2:46pm 243794
  "What are the specific prescriptions for worship found in Scripture? There are five key elements. First, the Bible is to be read (1 Timothy 4:13). Second, and very significantly for the Reformers, worship must include the preaching of the Word (2 Timothy 4:2; Romans 10:14–15). In the medieval Roman Catholic Church, preaching was diminished as the Mass was elevated in priority in worship. The Reformers insisted that preaching is central and a means of grace to strengthen believers in their sanctification. Third, prayers are to be offered in worship (Matthew 21:13; Acts 4:24–30). Fourth, the sacraments are to be rightly administered (Matthew 28:19; 1 Corinthians 11: 23–26). Remember, the Reformers determined that the Bible teaches only two sacraments: baptism and the Lord's Supper. Finally, singing is also included as an element of worship (Ephesians 5:19)." --Dr. Jeffery Jue from his article "The Centrality of Worship"


11 Do demons exist today? Note Bible general Beja Wed 10/19/16, 12:37pm 243793

But those say nothing about demons or opening ourselves up to demons.

12 Do demons exist today? Note Bible general EdB Wed 10/19/16, 10:02am 243792
  2 Cor 11:4, An example Lev 19:31, lev 20 :6
13 Do demons exist today? Note Bible general Beja Tue 10/18/16, 6:42pm 243791

I'm still not understanding. Though I will grant the fault is likely in me rather than your explanation. Maybe it would help if you pointed me to which passage of scripture teaches this, and then I can process it at my leisure.

In Christ, Beja
14 The Theology of the Cross Note 1 Pet 5:11 EdB Tue 10/18/16, 12:41pm 243790
  Doc last night a respected general was asked if he felt our army was the caliber of those that fought in World War 2. His answer I believe touches what you are saying.

His answer was of those that are currently enlisted, yes they are every bit as dedicated, brave and noble of those that won freedom in World War two but if the draft would ever have to be used the men drafted would destroy our army.

He went on to explain the soldiers of World War 2 were products of the great depression, that they were forced to learn and appreciate the meaning of life and liberty. They learned to survive through hard work and sacrifice. They toiled not just for themselves but for fellow man that this country could emerge for the depression.

This has been lost to following generations. I think most know or understand history and see that our direction is in a downward spiral but few have the backbone to stand and try to change it. It is easier to float down the water that carries this country into the cesspool we find ourselves, where Christianity can be openly mocked while to do likewise to Islam would show intolerance and bigotry. Pastors can be belittled and vilified but celebrities are sought for wisdom and advice. We are now letting actors advise us on our political picks as if they have wisdom we do not possess.

As I said in my previous post on another subject what we pay nothing for, we hold not value of, nor are we willing to protect it. We only treasure what costs us and what we have worked for. That is how we are wired as humans and God is well aware of that and I believe, even though this may fly in the face of free grace, true salvation requires much of us.
15 Real cost of Grace Note Luke 12:48 EdB Tue 10/18/16, 12:11pm 243789
  Anything gained with out price is usually not treasured or appreciated and rarely if ever guarded. David taught us this in 2 Sam 24:24. We see it today in the lives of many baby boomers and later generations, they are now inheriting the money made by their parents at no cost to them and we see them squandering it on frivolous things with little or no meaning.

While salvation can not be bought I believe God requires much of us so that true salvation is not meaningless but instead we have learned to value it. My belief is that many in free grace churches holding no value for that grace for which they paid nothing for.
16 Do demons exist today? Note Bible general EdB Tue 10/18/16, 11:44am 243788
  Sorry I was that I was not clear.
My question was, what defines a Christian the name or a behavior within them or the fact they have closed all e trances into their being except those that Christ Himself opens.

To clarify I believe there actions both Christians and non Christian can do that give Satan access into their lives. I am not talk about sinning as such but rather things that open our spirit being to attack.

Example while messing with the occult is sin it also opens our being giving entrance to Satan. Likewise consulting a medium, tarot card readings, ouija boards, drugs, alcohol, and so forth.

I believe to truly be a Christians we must be active in protecting the portals of our mind giving access to only to the things of God.

I hope that clarifies what I was trying to say.
17 The Theology of the Cross Note 1 Pet 5:11 DocTrinsograce Tue 10/18/16, 9:47am 243787
  "Most of the errors and heresies that have plagued American Christianity have been re-runs of earlier errors. Most such errors have been reflections of the surrounding culture and the most distinctive American error is no exception: the health and wealth theology. It teaches that if we do x (have the right quality of faith or write a sufficiently large check), God will be obligated to reward us with prosperity.

"American civil and economic life has offered a remarkably successful path to social and economic mobility. Dirt-poor farmers and the sons of alcoholics have become presidents, memorialized on currency and in statues. One of our great temptations, however, has been to turn the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, the Triune God, who spoke creation into existence ex nihilo (from nothing) and into nothing, who out of His free, sovereign grace, has redeemed his people from destruction, into a cosmic slot machine.

"Because Americans are so industrious and busy we are not great readers of history. After more than 50 years of chipping away at the American educational system, most of us probably lack a strong sense of the uniqueness of the American political, social, and economic experiment. We also probably lack a clear sense that the prosperity and civil liberties that we have enjoyed are quite unique in human history. To the degree we lack the sense of the uniqueness of the American experience, we might assume that Christians have always enjoyed the sorts of freedoms that we enjoy (most of the time). Such an assumption would be false. Certainly when the Apostle Peter wrote these two epistles to the churches of Asia Minor, those believers enjoyed none of the liberties that we know and may take for granted. The believers to whom Peter wrote were largely made up of the underclass of Greco-Roman society. They were not prosperous. Many of them were not free. They were not influential. They were objects of misunderstanding, derision, and hostility. ...they were likely aware that some of their brothers and sisters had been covered with pitch and set afire in Rome simply because Caesar needed a scapegoat and the Christians, a despised, powerless minority, were to hand.

"Here Peter begins to conclude the epistle just as he began it: with a stirring reminder that salvation is by grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ alone. For Christ’s sake God is favorable toward believers. This is Peter’s understanding of grace. It is not a medicinal substance with which we are infused. It is only God’s favor, his approval, his unconditional reception of his people, through faith alone, for Christ’s sake alone." --R. Scott Clark (2016)
18 Do demons exist today? Note Bible general Beja Tue 10/18/16, 9:41am 243786

You said, "Is it a name only or does it require a person to close all entrances to their being except that which is opened only by Christ?"

I admit I can't discern what you mean by this. Can you clarify?

In Christ, Beja
19 The Church Visible and Invisible Note Acts 12:1 DocTrinsograce Tue 10/18/16, 9:39am 243785
  Dear Ed,

Nothing that is spiritual is visible; so your terminology of physical/spiritual is perfectly coincident with Reformed theology.

The world is utterly dull to any spiritual things (1 Corinthians 2:14); nonetheless, they appear to me to have a hypersensitivity to sin! I think they gain that ability from the spirit of the age. When we hear them put their finger on hypocrisy (as you used for an example), then we can be sure that it may very well be something for which we ought to be concerned.

We shall always have the trares and the goats in our midst until the perousia of Christ. Thus our efforts individually, congregationally, and liturgically -- by the laity as well as the clergy -- is to make the physical church look as much as possible as the spiritual church. The promise that we will one day be like Him is an awesome promise of the final cleansing of the church.

Yes, the spiritual church is pure... again, we have the many promises that we will be like Him (1 John 3:2). When we die, our sanctification will sky rocket, such that we will be purified by the consummation of redemption!

For the Reformed, we rejoice that God always fulfills His promises. We even speak of hope as "a confident expectation" not a wistful wish.

So I agree entirely... let us persevere in walking in those things that God has accomplished. What a joy that we can do so, for He has already done it. Consequently, we ought to make every effort to walk in Him!

"He who has My commandments and keeps them is the one who loves Me; and he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and will disclose Myself to him." (John 14:21)

Thank you for sharing concerning the doctrine that you hold. It is informative and helpful.

In Him, Doc
20 Do demons exist today? Note Bible general EdB Tue 10/18/16, 9:30am 243784
  Interesting discussion. 2 Cor 11:3-4 seems to suggest that possession of a believer is possible.
I think the question then becomes what is a Christian?
Is it a name only or does it require a person to close all entrances to their being except that which is opened only by Christ?

Wow seems like Christians have a lot to do.
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